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How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

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Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#301
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be happening, at least in some European cities. Paris for instance is (very) slowly chasing cars outside of the city. London has the congestion tax. The problem of course is that you need the infrastructure to replace all the cars and public transportation in Paris is close to saturated. Still, it's probably a move in the right direction IMO.

It is kind of annoying when the solution to "our public transit is slow and shitty" is "make the alternatives worse".

Sometimes it really is a zero-sum game. Pedestrians, bikers, personal cars, buses and trams compete for the same surface area, and out of those cars are the main cause of congestion due to their abysmal people/m^2 value.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a matter of time before some stupid kids start jumping in the way of self-driving cars to make them brake hard. That's when we'll see the anti-pedestrian regulations appear, by my estimation.

Anti-pedestrian is a curious way of describing a rule that demands basic social cooperation. Are stop signs, red lights, and crosswalks “anti-car”?

Those traffic control measures are anti-pedestrian because they purely exist because of and in support of automobiles.

A situation with pedestrians only doesn't require those traffic controls.

A situation with motor vehicles only does require them, otherwise there will be an increase in the number of accidents and unacceptable congestion.

The mixture of the two requires them only because of the presence of motor vehicles.

It's very simple, really.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK a lot of residential areas have introduced 20mph limits (down from 30mph), close to no-one (except learner drivers) obey this new limit! :(

Automated speeding tickets will fix that quickly

Indeed. And automated driving will end a great deal of greed based revenue as well. And given the sensor data, proving lack of violation is trivial.

The $64k question is: what will states and counties do without police citation revenue?

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a matter of time before some stupid kids start jumping in the way of self-driving cars to make them brake hard. That's when we'll see the anti-pedestrian regulations appear, by my estimation.

Abruptly stepping in front of a vehicle is basically already illegal in the US. So no need to pass laws, except maybe to clarify the use of recordings from the vehicles as evidence. Of course that won't stop the behavior completely but it won't be a free for all either.

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Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#305
Can HN please stop it with this "not owning a car is virtuous" shtick? I went most of my younger life not having a car, only learning to drive at age 28. I lived in a new england suburb close enough to go to my work and shopping services at a ten minute walk at the time, and it still was horrid.

People here don't get how limited your life is without a car. You are limited to a ten-fifteen mile radius for everything, unless you use inefficient public transport which tacks on a huge time tax for even basic trips. You are captive to that transport, which means something like being called in is hard to impossible, as well as many duties of your workplace; dropping deposits off to a bank after hours as a manager, for example. That transport doesn't even expand your range that much, maybe one or two towns over; the time for further is so long as to be prohibitive.

Even with walking, you wind up spending far more time and expense on basic tasks. Instead of shopping one day you need to shop five, just because you can't fit more than a couple bags of goods. If you are on the bus, you can't even easily use perishables; 30-45 min one way is the norm. You can't do things like buy a mattress without tacked on delivery fees and more time spent waiting to receive it. If anything happens where you simply can't walk like doctor or dentist visits (because doctors don't always stay in walking distance of most people) that's an expensive cab or uber both ways. Sometimes its even worse...jury duty can be in the county courthouse 30 min by car and an hour and a half by bus.

You have no social life with no car. Not every town can simply cluster everything in one place; the downtown can easily be 30 minutes away from where people live. It took me an hour to walk to the comic shop one way; the bus would had made that longer, not shorter. Dates are impossible because of that; if the nearest date spot or bar isn't within five minutes, what do you do?

A life without personal cars would be a rather limited and even serfish one. Everyone assumes driverless cars might save us, but they have yet to prove they can even navigate a highway during a New England winter, which is what you'd need to do to replace a commute. People talk about bicycles, but 0 degree or snowy weather makes that horrid, as well as high heat. Please stop assuming cars are this evil thing that more walking and biking will solve; they wont, not at all.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It exists in the Netherlands (although I've never seen anyone fined for it)

As far as I know no such crime exists in the Netherlands. Pedestrians are strongly encouraged to cross carefully, but there are no fines for crossing wherever you want. It is illegal to ignore a red light, although I can't figure out if there's a law forcing you to use that crossing. And there is probably some kind of law against creating dangerous situations, but that's not exactly a law against jaywalking.

You can get fined but you won't. The rule is that you have to cross using the crosswalk if there is one within 30 meters, any further than that and you are in the clear.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#308
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cyclists may be restricted and anything else that confuses AI drivers. I don't think that will ever happen. It may even be the opposite: AI will drive in a way it will always be able to stop if there's a possibility that there's someone behind some obstacle that may jump to the road at any moment. Worst case scenario, beacons become mandatory. Cheap and anonymous beacons you have to carry when you're near a road. S…

I cannot imagine mandatory tracking devices, anonymous or not, ever being mandatory in the United States. That would never fly.

Everybody misinterpreted what I've intended. SHORT RANGE BEACONS. Enough to be "seen" by car AI through obstacles. Here's the imaginary conversation between car and beacon:

- "Is someone behind that parked van?"

- "Yes"

- "Who?"

- "Mind your own business, just slow down in case I decide to jump to the road, ok?"

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In bad neighborhoods, the carjackers(might not want a autonomous car though) or robbers might just roll a beach ball into the street to stop the car or maybe just a cheap open umbrella. I can imagine those people who practice "rolling coal" doing the same thing to rich autonomous car riders or just throwing a beach ball out the window on an interstate. Lots of possibilities that security researchers will need to cons…

Rolling a ball on the street is probably enough to stop human drivers as well. Is carjacking that much of a problem where you live? I've never heard of anybody being carjacked here. I guess you could equip your car with one of these devices if you're concerned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLhWzMOccTg

A human driver has a good chance to recognize the situation for what it is and just hit the beachball. (Or heck, the hoodlum himself.)

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In bad neighborhoods, the carjackers(might not want a autonomous car though) or robbers might just roll a beach ball into the street to stop the car or maybe just a cheap open umbrella. I can imagine those people who practice "rolling coal" doing the same thing to rich autonomous car riders or just throwing a beach ball out the window on an interstate. Lots of possibilities that security researchers will need to cons…

Autonomous cars have a lot of data gathering sensors - even if the car doesn't know something is going on, logs of what happened will greatly aid the police in their efforts to track down the criminal. If carjacking becomes a problem the cars will figure it out and start locking all the doors. Or if the car is unoccupied, let the carjaker in, then notify the nearest police station it is coming in with a criminal.

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