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How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

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Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#41

Post by [deleted] »

bwood wrote: post #33
Mo3 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nonsense. Jaywalking is not a crime or offence here. You cause an accident, you're paying. //Edit, I stand corrected. It's a very minor offence, costing you 10€ if there's no signal, if there's a signal 5€ if traffic is endangered and 10€ if an accident was caused. 10€ for crossing the Autobahn (or, more likely, your life)

Anecdotally, I once crossed an empty street in Munich when the crosswalk said not to and was promptly chastised by a police officer.

[deleted]

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#42

Post by jadedtuna »

mlinksva wrote: post #27

Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero.

Do you mean ban human drivers in urban areas or in general?

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#43

Post by bcit-cst »

jadedtuna wrote: post #42
mlinksva wrote: post #27

Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero.

Do you mean ban human drivers in urban areas or in general?

he means ban humans. period . fullstop.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#44

Post by contravariant »

hellweaver666 wrote: post #13
mattmanser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought jaywalking is only a thing in the US? I'm not sure who's less informed, you or me, I have no idea about the prevalence of the idea in other countries. It's not a crime to "jaywalk" in the UK, and I quote it as the concept simply doesn't exist here. Also, in the UK, if you are crossing a side street and a car wants to turn into it, officially speaking, the pedestrian has the right of way[1]. [1] https://www.…

It exists in the Netherlands (although I've never seen anyone fined for it)

As far as I know no such crime exists in the Netherlands. Pedestrians are strongly encouraged to cross carefully, but there are no fines for crossing wherever you want.

It is illegal to ignore a red light, although I can't figure out if there's a law forcing you to use that crossing.

And there is probably some kind of law against creating dangerous situations, but that's not exactly a law against jaywalking.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#45

Post by ChrisLomont »

craftyguy wrote: post #32
virgilp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a percentage of "miles traveled by car"? Absolutely.

Source?

The graph in the picture showed 16K deaths in 1923, for a US population of 111M then, with likely much smaller per capita driving miles than now. Now population is 323M, and there are around 5K pedestrian/car deaths annually [1]. We drive around 3 trillion miles annually[2].

If you can find the total or per capita miles driven in 1923, I think that would make the data complete. But it seems quite clear pedestrian deaths are vastly lower now than in 1923.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/ind...

[2] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#46

Post by jdhopeunique »

mlinksva wrote: post #27

Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero.

If automated vehicles become popular, I predict new crimes will be added in addition to jaywalking. Cyclists may be restricted and anything else that confuses AI drivers. If certain intersections or sections of road consistently confuse AI drivers, automakers will lobby for ways to change these roadways. I suspect calls for AI regulation by people like Elon Musk are really attempts at regulatory capture to make automated vehicles possible and dominated by the first market entrants.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#47

Post by ryandrake »

vijayr wrote: post #39

Reporters could send in the basic details of a traffic accident and would get in return a complete article to print the next day. These articles, printed widely, shifted the blame for accidents to pedestrians To me, that is the craziest sentence in the article. Reporters were outsourcing writing to the auto industry? Of course they blamed the pedestrians! In what world is this ethical? What is next? Sending overdose…

You say this as if it's unusual for news articles to be solely written by various company's PR and marketing teams.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#48

Post by jschwartzi »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #22
tedunangst wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In much the same way I'm happy we no longer empty chamber pots by heaving the contents out the front window, I don't really care where litter or rubbish comes from but I'd prefer it not pile up on the sidewalk.

Same, or that we have to dodge or wait for pedestrians when we're trying to get somewhere. I mean we do but only rarely if people abide by the laws / common sense.

As a frequent pedestrian who also pays road taxes, I am also trying to get somewhere, and I don't appreciate all the times I've had to dodge cars while using a crosswalk. The stakes for me are much higher.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#49

Post by krisdol »

Chriky wrote: post #30
rb808 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is more strict esp Germany. I heard a story that if you get hit by a car they'll come to your hospital bed to give you the bill to repair the car damage, though I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Culturally, I've noticed Germans will absolutely not cross before the green man, even if there are no cars. In the UK it is very common to cross even if the man is red. I've been in walking conversations with continental Europeans in London, then suddenly noticed they aren't at my side any more because they stopped at a crossing that was clear.

Even if they do cross, they have the right of way. Outside of maybe the autobahn, you should never be driving a car fast enough to where you cannot see a pedestrian in time to stop for them. It's pretty unlikely that the pedestrian is ever found at fault for an accident in Germany.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#50

Post by briandear »

makmanalp wrote: post #5
wccrawford wrote: post #2

Sure, they were pro-active about it, but let's face it: It was going to happen anyhow. This just accelerated things.

Well, we could be living in a situation where pedestrians take precedence and have right of way over cars in city streets, and the opposite in highways, which I think would be much more desirable, especially in crowded cities. Perhaps even ban cars except for abutters, commercial vehicles and emergency vehicles from the densest city center areas. God that would be a relief. edit: OK, yes, obviously you can and should…

It would be chaos. You’d have some jackass walking in the middle of the street as slow as possible, meanwhile people who actually have some place to go are all sitting around waiting on some fool who wants to play hacky-sack in the street.
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