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What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

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Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#361

Post by ddxxdd »

McKayDavis wrote: post #169
ryanSrich wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, why does being around other people matter? Wouldn't you want to find a structure that would withstand the blast/fallout?

It doesn't, except for increasing the odds of being able to gain access. The church is simply the best structure for blast/fallout protection that is accessible from our house within the flight-time of an ICBM launched towards Hawaii. That being said, it was comforting to have other families to share concerns with.

But you would be splitting limited supplies among more people, right?

Was the church only meant as a shelter for the blast, and not an actual fallout shelter?

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#362

Post by ddxxdd »

wolfgang42 wrote: post #295
gdubs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic, but if the book you’re referring to was the How It Works encyclopedia set, that was how I also learned about everything. My grandpa gave the set to me, and it included an incredible amount of material - illustrated and fascinating for a wide range of ages (this was long before we had internet). It is how I also learned about nuclear weapons, though I don’t specifically recall fallout shelters.

ashleyn says[0] that it was The Way Things Work [1] by David Macaulay (©1988), which indeed has (on page 177) a drawing of a fallout shelter depicted as a small concrete bunker at the end of a deep stairwell far underground (containing, of all things, a party singing Happy Birthday), along with the following description: > A future nuclear war would not only reduce cities and towns to ruins. Fallout from the nuclear…

::nostalgic tears::

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#363

Post by ddxxdd »

burfog wrote: post #303
JKCalhoun wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looked through the index of my early German (English translated, published around the 1960's, I believe) "The Way Things Work" volumes I and II and didn't see fallout shelters. It occurred to me though — when did they start calling them "fallout" shelters rather than "bomb" shelters? I'm guessing (after having read "The Making of the Atomic Bomb") that this would be about when the hydrogen bomb came along. It was sob…

It's not laughable. The building code in Switzerland specifies that residential construction must contain a shelter that withstands a 12 megaton blast at 700 meters. The country has more shelter than people. Another thing to note is that the multi-megaton weapons aren't in style anymore, due to improved targeting accuracy.

>Another thing to note is that the multi-megaton weapons aren't in style anymore, due to improved targeting accuracy.

I think it was due to the opposite, actually. The development of Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicles (MIRVs) made many small nuclear warheads more valuable than fewer large nuclear warheads.

If an ICBM is a shotgun, then kiloton-level MIRVs are like birdshot, which is seen as more valuable than megaton-level buckshot.

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#364

Post by ddxxdd »

anigbrowl wrote: post #139
gdubs wrote: post #64

It’s interesting how people (anecdotally) don’t seem to have any plan for a nuclear attack, as opposed to, say, an earthquake or a fire. I think there’s a stigma around even considering the possibility. However, it makes sense to at least talk with your family about what you would all do. According to what I’ve read on the gov sites, it’s very survivable for a lot of people if you take key steps: surround yourself wi…

A reasonable point, but it's sad that people consider surviving a nuclear war a more practical endeavor than altering the political direction of the country. Admittedly they are somewhat orthogonal, but I'm trying to highlight the problem of equating war with natural disasters as opposed to something over which we have any sort of political control.

According to game theory, the easiest way to win a game of Chicken is to tear off your steering column and wave it out your window.

In other words, preparing for nuclear war instead of preventing a nuclear war is how you win small battles, like where to put an embassy or whether foreign countries will respect your patents.

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#365

Post by ddxxdd »

asdjasldkjkljd wrote: post #109
stevenleeg wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stocking up on drinking water or having a source of water to flush the toilet with (by manually refilling the tank).

Drinking water. Don't flush the toilet because you might eventually need the water in the tank too.

I've never understood this. What do you do when you need to defecate?

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#366

Post by MagnumOpus »

ddxxdd wrote: post #365
asdjasldkjkljd wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking water. Don't flush the toilet because you might eventually need the water in the tank too.

I've never understood this. What do you do when you need to defecate?

Poo in a bucket, put a lid on it. If the alternative is eventually dying of thirst or having to venture out into a contaminated neighbourhood, necessity compels.

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#367

Post by sneak »

abecedarius wrote: post #88
sneak wrote: post #42

If someone did launch a missile, and it were destroyed with a secret weapons system, this is precisely the timeline (alert, not a drill - passage of 30+ mins to write a cover story about shift change, “oh sorry false alarm”) and news articles I would expect to see. The only thing we know is that we won’t ever receive the truth. Can you imagine how much worse it would be if the story were “US anti-missile defense dest…

Who else would likely see the missile besides U.S. military? That's an interesting idea, even if at first blush very unlikely.

Yeah, I don’t think there was a missile. Or, at least, there probably wasn’t. This messaging and timeline is just strangely congruent to what I would expect if there were.

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#368

Post by CocaKoala »

tux1968 wrote: post #263
CocaKoala wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're aware that a lot of people are upset about the sentiment expressed and not the word used to express it, correct?

Isn't the sentiment expressed by that word essentially "country with a lot of problems"? Is it much worse than saying "ours is the best country in the world"? Both are pretty insulting.

The sentiment expressed by the word is essentially "country with a lot of problems", yes. But the sentiment expressed by the statement as a whole is "We don't want people from those countries, we don't want to help them, we don't want them to access the American Dream. Despite our part in screwing up the world, we're not interesting in putting forth effort to help the people who have gotten screwed".

And the "we" in that statement is Trump, who speaks for the nation as its president.

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#369

Post by petropolisful »

sammoorhouse wrote: post #354
koheripbal wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big misconception about nuclear attacks. Full scale nuclear war with a adversary like Russia is indeed an apocalypse scenario, but a single lowish yield nuclear detonation by a nation like North Korea is very very survivable, if you are prepared. I have a similar evac plan with a bug-out bag that I gave my wife to keep at her work. For nuclear attack specifically, she is instructed NOT to leave her work an…

> she is instructed NOT to [...] Wait, she’s what now?

She's instructed NOT to do the opposite of staying put.

Re: What It Felt Like in Hawaii When Warning of an In-Bound Missile Arrived

#370

Post by McKayDavis »

ddxxdd wrote: post #361
McKayDavis wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, except for increasing the odds of being able to gain access. The church is simply the best structure for blast/fallout protection that is accessible from our house within the flight-time of an ICBM launched towards Hawaii. That being said, it was comforting to have other families to share concerns with.

But you would be splitting limited supplies among more people, right? Was the church only meant as a shelter for the blast, and not an actual fallout shelter?

> But you would be splitting limited supplies among more people, right?

Yes, but Mormon churches generally have well-stocked pantries they use to help local families in need.

> Was the church only meant as a shelter for the blast, and not an actual fallout shelter?

Both. Compared to our house, the church is a stronger building that is much more airtight (in the case of fallout).

As far as actual fallout shelters, there are none -- this is simply the best option within reach.

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