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Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

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Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#271

Post by closeparen »

ramzyo wrote: post #264
closeparen wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities exist to search for truth and to train future generations in the methods and results of the ongoing search for truth. We give these institutions donations and tax money so that they can be independent of the economy, and work on what the market won't. You could look at the National Science Foundation and other federal grant programs as a form of basic income, providing grad students with a minimal standa…

Thank you for taking the time to write this - very well thought out and well reasoned. I don't think one can ignore the disconnect between the stated charter of top universities (basically to do research) and the motivations for the majority of undergraduates who actually attend them (prestige, which hopefully leads to a high paying job). I doubt that all donors give these institutions donations to further their rese…

The reticence may be frustrating, but it shouldn't be mysterious. Why do we have libraries? Symphony orchestras? Art museums? We should not compromise university to meet workforce training needs, any more than we should pave over Central Park for office space.

That's not to say we ban career training (or office buildings), but some space is and ought to be reserved for other things.

Students seeking higher education for purely economic reasons are wrong to do so, and a gauntlet has been thrown to the business community to launch serious competitors that more directly address its training needs.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#272

Post by geebee »

drewmate wrote: post #147
firstplacelast wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sister is a travel nurse. She does not prepare for interviews and typically has several a year. Her entire interview process goes: call the agency and tell them she is looking for a new position, have one to several 30-45minute phone calls with hiring managers at the hospitals she is interested in (she actually took one once in the middle of a wine tasting - and got the job), then wait to hear back. That's what it's…

As an aside, what is the range for "low six figures?" I hear this term a lot, and it seems ambiguous to me. If I hear "low 90's" I can reasonably assume between 90-93, but what does low six figures mean? Is it 100k-103k as an analogue to the 90's example? Or is 100k-300k? If the former, than it's probably most useful just to say 100k. If the latter, then that range is too wide to mean anything.

I agree with you that as a term “low six figures” is odd. 300k should mean low six figures.

In the vernacular, with regards to salary, it is used to describe a range between 100 and 200k. So low six figures tends to mean closer to 100k. That’s very consistent in usage.

It is a little odd though, I would agree about that.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#273

Post by pjmlp »

closeparen wrote: post #269
pjmlp wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't have an engineering degree, they aren't engineers.

Is engineering a credential, or an activity?

It is the knowledge gathered along 5 years of studies, the activities that put into practice that knowledge and the certification of the quality of the teachings.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#274

Post by closeparen »

Blazespinnaker wrote: post #270
closeparen wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, not even slightly. Research is something you do after you know the problem at hand, to see if you find anything helpful. Preparation is something you do before you know the problem to minimize reaction time once the problem is revealed. Preparation is wildly inefficient, as it involves studying a bunch of material that will not turn out to be needed, just in case. If you're writing software under the kind of ti…

So wrong in so many different ways. The questions you research / prep for may be needed at some point in your career. Much like programming. You program for all relevant edge cases, as one might be used at some point. People who don’t prep are horribly lazy and are terrible at enumerating edge cases. The have buggy code that fails at some point. Laziness is by far the way worse quality? Though not the only sin. Lack…

>The questions you research / prep for may be needed at some point in your career.

And most people, most of the time, can and should research them as needed.

>You program for all relevant edge cases, as one might be used at some point.

Yes, because a program doesn't get to pause execution and defer to the human mind to ask "hmm, what do I do in this case?" A programmer does so all day every day.

>are terrible at enumerating edge cases

Any attempt to pre-compute the edge cases of all possible programming situations will be hopelessly inadequate. Enumerating edge cases requires analytical thinking in the moment, essentially the opposite of preparation.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#275

Post by pjmlp »

walshemj wrote: post #254
pjmlp wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, computing has lots to thank to UK, Germany, Finland, France, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Sorry if I forgot anything, fellow Europeans.

You didn't get that I was hinting that countries that don't have strict rules about who can call themselves engineers invented the core tech behind computers ditto Ethernet which was US and UK.

Some of the countries I listed do have strict rules and also invented core tech behind computers.

Core tech behind computers is more than just a network protocol that got lucky.

In case you missed it, Robert Metcalfe is an electrical engineer.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#276

Post by pjmlp »

barry-cotter wrote: post #236
pjmlp wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal, Spain and Greece as the examples I know. Nursing is taught at many universities with medical degree, first and second year students tend to share some of the lectures. Also, because of that, people with nursing degree are able to acquire a medical degree by taking the extra lectures and exams afterwards.

Could you furnish me an example from Western Europe please then? I am familiar enough with the Romance languages to read Portuguese or Spanish if there’s a university with any/substantial overlap between nursing and medicine.

What usually happens is that nursery faculties sometimes share a few lectures with medicine faculties, for things like biochemistry, biophysics.

It is not examples that one finds online, rather on corridors and schedule notes.

What I can provide as an example is that nurses and doctors have equal access to many master and PhDs. Check "condições de acesso" in some of the links from the page and you will find "enfermagem" as accepted degree.

http://www.uc.pt/fmuc/gabineteestudoavancados/formacaoposgra...

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#277

Post by ramzyo »

closeparen wrote: post #271
ramzyo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for taking the time to write this - very well thought out and well reasoned. I don't think one can ignore the disconnect between the stated charter of top universities (basically to do research) and the motivations for the majority of undergraduates who actually attend them (prestige, which hopefully leads to a high paying job). I doubt that all donors give these institutions donations to further their rese…

The reticence may be frustrating, but it shouldn't be mysterious. Why do we have libraries? Symphony orchestras? Art museums? We should not compromise university to meet workforce training needs, any more than we should pave over Central Park for office space. That's not to say we ban career training (or office buildings), but some space is and ought to be reserved for other things. Students seeking higher education…

I think you have the Central Park analogy backwards here. What Central Park provides (nature and openness) is scarce among what surrounds it (an incredibly urban and dense landscape). On the contrary, research institutions compose the majority of top U.S. universities, and are not in danger of being supplanted by something else should they adapt their charters. Similarly, NYC wouldn't be putting it's urban character at risk by zoning more parks.

I have trouble understanding why there can be no middle ground between the status quo and pure vocational training. As I mentioned in a comment below, most arguments against middle ground that I've heard boil down to, at the core, nothing more than circular-reasoning like, "this is the way it's always been, and we want it to stay this way because things have always been this way." Why don't universities make an addendum to their charters to maintain the goal of being world-class research institutions AND provide pragmatic, real-world training? What sacrifice would be made? Would the quality of university research truly decline?

Whether students are wrong to pursue higher education for purely economic reasons is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact. What is a fact is that many students do pursue higher education for purely economic reasons, because society tells them from a young age to do so, and it's reasonable to assume that a degree from a top institution in a technical field will lead to a high paying job. The business community certainly could do more to shoulder any perceived burden for professional training and/or certification; however, traditionally research-focused universities should also work to better support the motivations of the majority of their undergraduate (and paying) student body, as Stanford has done here.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#278

Post by closeparen »

ramzyo wrote: post #277
closeparen wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reticence may be frustrating, but it shouldn't be mysterious. Why do we have libraries? Symphony orchestras? Art museums? We should not compromise university to meet workforce training needs, any more than we should pave over Central Park for office space. That's not to say we ban career training (or office buildings), but some space is and ought to be reserved for other things. Students seeking higher education…

I think you have the Central Park analogy backwards here. What Central Park provides (nature and openness) is scarce among what surrounds it (an incredibly urban and dense landscape). On the contrary, research institutions compose the majority of top U.S. universities, and are not in danger of being supplanted by something else should they adapt their charters. Similarly, NYC wouldn't be putting it's urban character…

>What Central Park provides (nature) is scarce among what surrounds it (an incredibly urban and dense landscape). On the contrary, research institutions compose the majority of top U.S. universities, and are not in danger of being supplanted by something else should they adapt their charters.

What universities provide (liberal education, basic research, etc.) is scarce among what surrounds them (capitalism). Time is finite; the more of it we spend on workforce training, the less of it there is for an undergraduate education's current content.

Maybe the current content is not worthwhile, so we may as well gut it and reuse the facilities/framework for vocational training, but surely you recognize that doing so makes the current content less available.

>traditionally research-focused universities should also work to better support the motivations of the majority of their undergraduate (and paying) student body

Customer-service mindset is a poor fit for education. If "the customer is always right," why bother with teaching?

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#279

Post by sidlls »

pedrosorio wrote: post #259
sidlls wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to both your questions is "no", and companies use them in spite of that.

Any studies that support the answer "no" for both questions? Technical interview performance has ~0 correlation with performance on the job? I find it hard to believe. Is the mean performance on the job of a software engineer that fails to pass Google interviews as good as one that does? Why do most companies want to hire Google software engineers if that is the case? As for my second question, it should have been "i…

> Any studies that support the answer "no" for both questions?

Google had a study that has been linked to death around here which showed the scores hires received on their interviews didn't correlate to job performance ratings. There are of course biases and flaws in that study, but it underscores another separate point: studies should show they do correlate, not the other way around (prove a negative).

> Finally, "and companies use them in spite of that". Any guesses why?

Bandwagon effect, cargo cults, ego boosting/confirmation bias from applying a hazing ritual, laziness all come to mind.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#280

Post by ramzyo »

closeparen wrote: post #278
ramzyo wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have the Central Park analogy backwards here. What Central Park provides (nature and openness) is scarce among what surrounds it (an incredibly urban and dense landscape). On the contrary, research institutions compose the majority of top U.S. universities, and are not in danger of being supplanted by something else should they adapt their charters. Similarly, NYC wouldn't be putting it's urban character…

>What Central Park provides (nature) is scarce among what surrounds it (an incredibly urban and dense landscape). On the contrary, research institutions compose the majority of top U.S. universities, and are not in danger of being supplanted by something else should they adapt their charters. What universities provide (liberal education, basic research, etc.) is scarce among what surrounds them (capitalism). Time is…

I leave the debate here - thanks for engaging!
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