Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Interviews or exams” That you think interviews and exams are interchangeable concepts illustrates the problem. Nothing wrong with a rigorous filter at the gates of the profession, but lawyers don’t need to spend months studying for each company’s half-assed version of the bar exam each time they change jobs. Our industry is dysfunctional because, unlike law and medicine, no one trusts the credentialing mechanisms.
Our industry also has quite a lot of self-taught professionals, who can perform as well as their college educated counterparts, which is something you won't really get in professions like Law or Medicine. I think that's a good thing, when it comes to software.
Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
261–270 of 292 posts
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet every hiring manager on here can tell you stories of hiring someone who passed all the screens, but on the job could not write a single line of competent code. The industry provides too much cover to fake it with a title that sounds technical but isn't. You might hire a musician based on hours of discussion of their deep knowlege of violin theory, but it would still be a mistake without hearing them play.
On the same line of thought, you wouldn't hire a violinist just because you heard them play the scales. In music, you often get handed some sheet music or asked to prepare something. In the cooking industry, you throw them at a kitchen and tell them to impress you. In the programming industry... We ask people to write toys and logic puzzles. That isn't what they'll spend their days doing, that's just practice, like s…
A violinist might be asked to play a technically difficult but short piece during an audition, even when most of the music they would play as a member of the orchestra would be less challenging and take a much longer time to play, with plenty of time for rehearsing ahead of time. Likewise, a software engineer is ideally asked to solve a small but technically challenging problem during the interview.
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment reeks of elitism. In my experience, new grads from top American universities are incredibly intelligent, but their community college and trade school counterparts score much higher on job preparedness, an incredibly marketable and bankable skill. As someone with a top American university degree, I’d have loved a course in job preparedness, and have learned a ton from coworkers who have succeeded as Softw…
Universities exist to search for truth and to train future generations in the methods and results of the ongoing search for truth. We give these institutions donations and tax money so that they can be independent of the economy, and work on what the market won't. You could look at the National Science Foundation and other federal grant programs as a form of basic income, providing grad students with a minimal standa…
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment reeks of elitism. In my experience, new grads from top American universities are incredibly intelligent, but their community college and trade school counterparts score much higher on job preparedness, an incredibly marketable and bankable skill. As someone with a top American university degree, I’d have loved a course in job preparedness, and have learned a ton from coworkers who have succeeded as Softw…
Universities exist to search for truth and to train future generations in the methods and results of the ongoing search for truth. We give these institutions donations and tax money so that they can be independent of the economy, and work on what the market won't. You could look at the National Science Foundation and other federal grant programs as a form of basic income, providing grad students with a minimal standa…
I don't think one can ignore the disconnect between the stated charter of top universities (basically to do research) and the motivations for the majority of undergraduates who actually attend them (prestige, which hopefully leads to a high paying job). I doubt that all donors give these institutions donations to further their research goals. I know for one that if I were given the option to focus the impact of my donation, I'd readily choose it be applied to a practical, skills-focused program within the research-focused university that I attended. Furthermore, the undergraduate programs of top private universities in the United States aren't funded by tax payer dollars - they're funded by sky-high tuition. As the OP shared a class applying to the undergraduate curriculum at Stanford, a tax money argument isn't relevant here. If the course were geared toward Masters or PhD students - different story.
Finally, universities seem incredibly resistant to re-evaluating their place in society in the 21st century economy -- at least in the U.S. From childhood, a college degree is pushed as a necessity for financial success. Top universities like Stanford are sought out not just for their academic rigor, but for the network and prestige afforded to their alumni, who can parlay these things into a strong career path and a high paying job. Univerisities seem deaf to this reality. I'm sure they understand it, but for whatever reason are reticent to acknowledge that their role in society and to the economy has evolved since their founding.
I think Stanford should be applauded for offering this course - would love to know how many students registered.
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
Universities exist to search for truth and to train future generations in the methods and results of the ongoing search for truth. We give these institutions donations and tax money so that they can be independent of the economy, and work on what the market won't. You could look at the National Science Foundation and other federal grant programs as a form of basic income, providing grad students with a minimal standa…
This mentality is why an entire generation of college graduates is completely unemployable. If you’re going to take this approach, fine, but let’s be honest about it and stop telling kids that university exists for any reason other than to let rich people futz around with intellectual naval-gazing, and let’s stop sending kids to college when what they really need is marketable skills.
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
> until someone comes up with a less gameable system or a magic wand that stack ranks applicants, then I don't see a viable alternative This is exactly the concept of an IQ test, right down to the stack ranking. They're pretty well understood by now, and they take less than a day, which compares pretty favorably to "months".
Isn't it illegal to hire people based on IQ in the US?
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't it illegal to hire people based on IQ in the US?
It is presumptively discriminatory unless you do a formal study documenting that high-IQ employees perform better than low-IQ employees. PG&E and the NFL use IQ tests in hiring.
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#268This is what I was afraid of. I always thought interviews were something where you present your abilities, experience and knowledge. It should not be something you "prepare" for because then you're not showing off your skills, instead you're just regurgitating what you are trained to do. I do somewhat blame the whiteboard culture, but I guess that's the one that has given the best results so far. I've no doubt that i…
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not "just learning a few things". Some software engineers have years of experience on the job despite no CS education. In the end it's about how much value you bring to the company. If your diploma helps you deliver that value, great. If not, your diploma is irrelevant. I'm always very weary of companies that tell me I'll earn more money because I have a PhD completely irrelevant to the job I'll be hired to do.…
If they don't have an engineering degree, they aren't engineers.
Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true if you have very junior level responsibility, but as soon as you need to take any kind of leadership role others will be looking to you to contribute in a manner that is not ad hoc. Also, you mention research. Research and preparation are synonymous.
Nope, not even slightly. Research is something you do after you know the problem at hand, to see if you find anything helpful. Preparation is something you do before you know the problem to minimize reaction time once the problem is revealed. Preparation is wildly inefficient, as it involves studying a bunch of material that will not turn out to be needed, just in case. If you're writing software under the kind of ti…
Much like programming. You program for all relevant edge cases, as one might be used at some point.
People who don’t prep are horribly lazy and are terrible at enumerating edge cases. The have buggy code that fails at some point. Laziness is by far the way worse quality? Though not the only sin.
Lack of sincere desire to be helping the team succeed and no innate talent are bad too.