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Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

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Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#101

Post by geezerjay »

simplemath__ wrote: post #68
RickHull wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s how cartels get power in the first place, but once they’re there, they’re in the business of preserving revenue streams and territory and thus power. An anarchocapitalist would note that this is straight out of the statist playbook. What distinguishes cartels from roving bandits that pivot to stationary? It's hard to lay the blame for this on capitalism per se.

>What distinguishes cartels from roving bandits that pivot to stationary? You're asking the wrong question, I think. The 64 trillion dollar question, IMO: "what allows market incumbents to remain stationary" The 'blame', as ever, lies in human frailty. Avarice and greed. Alternatively, you could look at avarice and greed as malformed extensions of self-preservation instinct. Bad actors are omnipresent and relying on…

> You're asking the wrong question,

You only say that because you don't like the answer, as it demonstrates that statist barriers on the market are the true causes of this problem, and a free market economy would render this issue entirely moot.

As the history of all communist states demonstrate, state-impose barriers to market creates all sortes of economical,social and criminal problems. Drug trafficking is one of them.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#102

Post by philipkglass »

XorNot wrote: post #96
philipkglass wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relatively easy to make from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, but the over-the-counter decongestant pills containing those precursors have had their availability drastically curtailed in the US over the past 20 years. I think that Breaking Bad showed how much hard work it was to have a bunch of straw-purchasers buy pills up to each person's legal limit, so you could gather enough of them to make wholesale quantitie…

But again that presumes the markets are substitutatable at the same sort of scale and they're just not. This line of thinking feels like a hold over from the 80s and the notion of drug pushers. High school kids aren't going to just start doing meth.

I agree that cartels can't just "pivot to meth" and make the same total profits. There's not enough American demand for meth. I was trying to explain why, for supplying the demand that does exist, meth smuggling is profitable despite the relatively low barriers to entry for small-scale production of meth inside America.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#103

Post by chrischen »

ttul wrote: post #72

Why doesn't Mexico just legalize heroin and cocaine distribution? Wouldn't this put an end to the cartels?

The United States heavily punishes countries that legalize drugs, if not by direct sanctions, then by pulling aid.

See how US threatened UN with pulling aid, and Pakistan.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#104

Post by simplemath__ »

geezerjay wrote: post #101
simplemath__ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What distinguishes cartels from roving bandits that pivot to stationary? You're asking the wrong question, I think. The 64 trillion dollar question, IMO: "what allows market incumbents to remain stationary" The 'blame', as ever, lies in human frailty. Avarice and greed. Alternatively, you could look at avarice and greed as malformed extensions of self-preservation instinct. Bad actors are omnipresent and relying on…

> You're asking the wrong question, You only say that because you don't like the answer, as it demonstrates that statist barriers on the market are the true causes of this problem, and a free market economy would render this issue entirely moot. As the history of all communist states demonstrate, state-impose barriers to market creates all sortes of economical,social and criminal problems. Drug trafficking is one of…

His answer demonstrates that statist barriers on the market are the true causes of the problem?

How does his answer demonstrate that?

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#105

Post by CyberDroiDT »

tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

Another whack opinion from Hacker News, coming off as facts. Get a clue.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#106

Post by tomohawk »

If they really wanted to cripple the cartels, they would impose a tax on all drugs sold by the cartels. This can be done without legalization. If caught with drugs and no tax stamp, you get charged with tax evasion.

This would also raise needed revenues.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#107

Post by 2_listerine_pls »

michaelchisari wrote: post #43
tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. Not disagreeing with your larger point, but the fact of the matter is that it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. If coca cola were made illegal, something that is bad for you by many metrics but hardly life destroying, people are not going to switc…

> but they're dwarfed by pot sales

I doubt selling pot is more profitable than the rest of their activities combined. Take The Knights Templar as an example, they operated within a single state and made around a Billion USD in 2013 from Iron ore alone.

https://nypost.com/2014/03/17/mexican-drug-cartel-moves-from...

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#108

Post by cname »

matt4077 wrote: post #53
cname wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you can say hierarchical organizations that use violence/coercion are in any way anarchist. Anarcho-capitalism requires voluntary engagement in a system of contracts and so forth. (Whether that could actually work in the real world is debatable but beside the point.)

You're using different meanings of the word 'anarchy': 2. (uncountable) Anarchism; the political theory that a community is best organized by the voluntary cooperation of individuals, rather than by a government, which is regarded as being coercive by nature. 3. (countable) A chaotic and confusing absence of any form of political authority or government. 4. Confusion in general; disorder.

tomrod used the term "anarcho-capitalism", which is a specific strain of political anarchy, and that is what I was responding to.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#109

Post by [deleted] »

2_listerine_pls wrote: post #107
michaelchisari wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. Not disagreeing with your larger point, but the fact of the matter is that it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. If coca cola were made illegal, something that is bad for you by many metrics but hardly life destroying, people are not going to switc…

> but they're dwarfed by pot sales I doubt selling pot is more profitable than the rest of their activities combined. Take The Knights Templar as an example, they operated within a single state and made around a Billion USD in 2013 from Iron ore alone. https://nypost.com/2014/03/17/mexican-drug-cartel-moves-from...

[deleted]

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#110

Post by Spooky23 »

sigstoat wrote: post #46
Spooky23 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you explain the historical abuses of power and nasty behavior of the companies that produce things like bananas and pineapples?

"abuses of power and nasty behavior" ... "produce things like"... how is this "question" supposed to be addressable? how would you defend the historical abuses of power and nasty behavior by government? there's a lot more democide to answer for than there are murders by malign corporations.

I’d suggest that you spend 10 minutes to familiarize yourself with what companies like Standard Fruit Company and United Fruit did in Central America.

Their behavior, from undermining the local government to monopolizing trade to death squads is all activity consistent with what the cartels have done. Cartels have better margins, but bananas were pretty deadly.

The point is in reference to your extremist position that if only drugs were not contraband and subject to the rule of law, you wouldn’t have the cartels. That position Has been demonstrated many times to be incorrect. Using the Central American model, you can also contrast with Costa Rica, where there is a stable government and the rule of law is more mature.

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