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Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#391

Just watched an interview on CNN with the Governor of Hawaii and their director of emergency management. Pretty impressed that the director didn't throw anybody under the bus. He basically said "An employee pushed the wrong button. It's my responsibility, so this is my fault. We're going to make procedure and technical changes to make sure this doesn't happen again."

So, people on the mainland are reacting differently than people in Hawaii. But this is not unexpected. When you live in such an isolated and vulnerable place, you are prepared for events which take a turn for the worst. I sort of figured people on the mainland would be clutching pearls and calling for the firing of the employee. But we have "false alarms" in Hawaii occasionally (e.g. with tsunami warnings which fizzl…

> If you don't live in Hawaii and are having this kind of weird panicked reaction to a mistake

There is a lot of fearmongering just lately around the idea that there's going to be a nuclear war with North Korea because the president likes to talk shit on Twitter. I've had so much practice, with my explanation of all the reasons that won't happen, that by now I could do it as an elevator pitch if I needed to. That's why so many people are having this "weird panicked reaction" - panicked, yes, but not weird, when so much effort has been spent to insist that an arrantly implausible counterfactual is not just possible but likely.

(On that note, I expect the next wave of articles and op-eds to revolve around Hawaii's recent "close call", and why it means everyone should be much more scared than everyone is already. Who cares about externalities like the health of the republic when there's attention to be monetized?)

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are calling for the person who did this to be instantly fired, but I've always been of the opinion that the guy that pushed that button would be an outstanding hire - because he'll never, ever do something like that again and he's learned an important lesson.

BINGO. If someone makes a mistake like this, unless it was deliberate or negligent (e.g. he/she didn't follow established procedures), you don't fire them! You fix the technical or procedural failures that allowed them to make the mistake in the first place. Heck, you should probably THANK them for making the system better by uncovering a bug! When I was still mostly a Noogler, I took a large portion of Google comple…

They say worker hit real button rather than test button. Some folks don’t believe this b/c test button is hit on 1st of month. It is not the 1st of month so why was any button hit, especially one that is so major, how could be accident?

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the whole point of this threat, that there are no ethics when there is no policing or government oversight.

Are you saying the only reason you're not already looting others' homes is because the government tells you not to? If so, you're the problem, not everybody else.

No. But I am saying without government policing ENOUGH people go for looting other homes and eventually turn to their animal instincts. And my whole thread was about how majority of population chose not to believe that. They believe that nice neighbor living next door will rather starve to death or eat its own feet, rather than turn into cannibal and butcher someone else.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#395
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are certain jobs where the job is to get it right 100% of the time. This sort of mistake is extremely damaging in the unlikely scenarios that there would be an actual alert. A significant proportion of the population will ignore it next time because of this. You can’t take the “shits happen”, “break often and break fast”, “it doesn’t matter because we learn from our mistakes” attitude with everything. And i…

> But there are certain jobs where the job is to get it right 100% of the time. No there aren't. There are certain activities that must be always correct, you implement those by making a reliable system out of unreliable jobs, not by making the people 100% reliable.

So, the people who are in charge of designing such a system need to do a good job. What if that too inevitably fails? You can either improve the system/process by learning from mistakes or blindly firing the culprits and replacing them with somebody who might well make the same mistake again

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#396
post #386
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to play devil's advocate, in some cases the point of firing an employee in a situation like this isn't about that one employee but more pour encourager les autres . So the remaining employees will see that management takes the issue seriously and they need to be diligent about following procedures. In this particular case no real harm was done and firing would probably be excessive.

So the remaining employees will see that management takes the issue seriously Why not fire the manager of the person who made the blunder? That would work better on every level.

If that's what always happens, it would be pretty easy to get rid of your manager.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kudos. That is how you manage. However my concern is that it took over 30 minutes to send another message stating it was false. Seems like they should have been able to spot their mistake almost instantly. As I commented below, if this happened when the stock market was open, this could have had a huge impact financially. Over 30 minutes with no updates is an eternity for news to hit Wall Street and algo trades start…

It could be that there were no "oopsie" messages coded into the system and they didn't have an easy way to send a newly written message out. If it's designed to be used with canned messages, it might take some time to work out how to put a new one in...

Or you just don't rush and ensure your mitigation doesn't make things even worse

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#398
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what those procedural changes could be Could they do it so say, two people have to input a code or something from different machines, or something more physical like turning two keys, hitting a button etc

People are used to say Yes in a standard confirmation dialog. It would be helpful to implement something more complicated like pressing two buttons, typing "yes" to a clear question or solving a simple puzzle (ideally visualizing the outcome while solving it).

A common pattern, e.g. used by github when deleting repos, is to type something (e.g. the name of said github repo); not necessarily a puzzle, just spelling out the thing you want done.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why implicate Russia at all, if its so easy? Sounds like a red herring to me, and also just as conspiratorial as the parent comment.

Both Russia and NK have obvious motives and capability to do it. It doesn't mean you stop looking for causes or eliminate human error though. The viability of Russia/NK depends on how the EAS network is set up in Hawaii. If they have internet-facing servers, it's completely possible.

Still, implicating other countries so soon seems premature and reactonary to me. Its like corporate news jumping to 'terrorism' immediately after any domestic tragedy. Our threat models need to include more than just nation states. Otherwise, we end up contributing to escalation through untethered fear.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that someone probably deserves to be fired for this. It's obviously not the guy that pushed the button nor the guy that wrote the software. However, there was, probably, a guy that several years ago didn't do his job well - his job was to make sure that this kind of errors cannot happen, unless there is an intentional malicious action of course. We see it all the time in IT - people totally misjudge the…

There is hardly just one person responsible for doing this. There was at least one developer who implemented this solution, at least “designer” that can up with a solution for the initial problem, a dozen managers who oversaw that whole project, up to the minister who must have been aware of this problem. Let alone everybody who ever worked with this system and never reported that “bug”. So if you want to fire someon…

i’m not so sure there would have been any kind of designer. from my dealings with govt projects, especially internal ones, they rarely do any UX of any kind. the interface is ad-hoc from the devs, and you can’t expect a dev to design a fool proof interface.

if you direct the blame 1 level further, then it was whoever was responsive for budget/hiring/spec that didn’t ensure that there was a UX designer on the project, but at the same time you can kinda understand why not: the value of UX is frequently not understood, especially when people think “it’s just internal; why make it easy to use if only we see it?”. the answer of course is that you pay for internal systems every day in employee time.

anyway, the point i guess is you can probably trace the “blame” back far enough that it’s too far removed to say it’s anyone’s fault per se, but it proves the point that you need design across the board, and that’s frequently not well understood

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