An interesting Reddit comment described a chaotic traffic situation for 20 minutes (people running lights, wrong-side-of-the-road driving, extreme speed, etc.). Human nature in these moments is very “Tragedy of the Commons” apparently.
Link?
Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
261–270 of 409 posts
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody teaches anyone about cover during a nuclear strike anymore. In fact, the concept is frequently mocked as cynical Cold War era propaganda.
The mocking isn't unjustifiable though. I mean the turtle/duck and cover is quite pointless, at least in the case of a nuclear strike (unless you're maybe on the far edge of it, in which case a ditch might save you..and that's big might). In the documentary "Iraq: The Untold Story", the creator shows civilian air raid shelters in Baghdad. They were four stories down, with the upper floors all reinforced concrete. Yet…
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Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're engaged in a drill that's a completely predictable failure mode which you should have a standby plan for. This happened on a week-end. The coders could have very well been at home. Again, why would you perform a drill involving mass emergency mobilization and not manage that risk? What if this had happened during a morning commute or in some part of the country where people are more easily panicked? With gr…
This was not a planned drill. It was a mistake by an operator during shift change.
I find that explanation hard to take at face value. There's a button specifically labeled 'ballistic missile emergency'? Is there a different button for every possible emergency, like a tsunami button, a hijacked plane button, an earthquake button, a volcano button?
The text of the warning was “EMERGENCY ALERT BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.” That seems really specific.
Also, the news story we're commenting on describes it as a drill that is conducted every shift change, so yes I think it's a drill because that's how they describe it.
Officials said the alert was the result of human error and not the work of hackers or a foreign government. The mistake occurred during a shift-change drill that takes place three times a day at the emergency command post, according to Richard Rapoza, a spokesman for the agency.
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#264An interesting Reddit comment described a chaotic traffic situation for 20 minutes (people running lights, wrong-side-of-the-road driving, extreme speed, etc.). Human nature in these moments is very “Tragedy of the Commons” apparently.
It's good to see people react. There are lots of stories of people dying in disasters because they didn't take it seriously. E.g. sirens blaring for a tornado alert, and people are just continue mowing their lawns. Or people continue eating their meal when the building is on fire, who ended up dying.
Tornado alley lifer here... they're a different story. They process slowly (10mph-30mph), the vast majority of them in the USA will move SW to NE, they usually have a very narrow damage track (100yards), and are usually very visible on weather radar as bright wind sheer.
My point being, if you can see a tornado coming, you'll have ample time to take shelter in a basement [or if you're in an unpopulated area, you can get out of the way]. Why people get killed by tornados "still" is usually insufficient shelter (homes without basements or safe rooms), quick touchdowns, them occurring at odd hours when people are sleeping, or the occasional goliath tornado with a massive damage track that's moving quickly, in the wrong direction.
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's going to make a huge difference is the blast is far enough away for you to not be in the "obliterate everything" zone, but still close enough to be dangerous.
Is this the same area where you will die of radiation over the weeks following the attack?
No, you can survive for decades or ever even within a fairly close area.
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#266Serious question: for those of you reading this, how would you have responded in those 30 minutes?
If possible move upwind, as far away from any military or industrial targets as possible. Otherwise, shelter underground or in a concrete/stone building. Put on the best dust/gas mask you can find. Put on heavy or waterproof clothing and try and cover as much skin as possible. I work in nuclear security so this is kinda my thing. If you're in the fireball zone you're pretty much toast, other than that it's mostly abo…
> I work in nuclear security
I'm curious, what does that mean? Designing shelters? Teaching people what to do in nuclear attacks?
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#267Just watched an interview on CNN with the Governor of Hawaii and their director of emergency management. Pretty impressed that the director didn't throw anybody under the bus. He basically said "An employee pushed the wrong button. It's my responsibility, so this is my fault. We're going to make procedure and technical changes to make sure this doesn't happen again."
A lot of people are calling for the person who did this to be instantly fired, but I've always been of the opinion that the guy that pushed that button would be an outstanding hire - because he'll never, ever do something like that again and he's learned an important lesson.
If the Ui was so deliberate easy to send an alert and it was allowed to be implemented, mistakes will happen, he shouldn’t be fired for that
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#268I was just thinking they are testing the network on one of the smallest areas in the US. You know with NK threatening to press the button
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#269Just watched an interview on CNN with the Governor of Hawaii and their director of emergency management. Pretty impressed that the director didn't throw anybody under the bus. He basically said "An employee pushed the wrong button. It's my responsibility, so this is my fault. We're going to make procedure and technical changes to make sure this doesn't happen again."
A lot of people are calling for the person who did this to be instantly fired, but I've always been of the opinion that the guy that pushed that button would be an outstanding hire - because he'll never, ever do something like that again and he's learned an important lesson.
It depends. Much has to do with the way management handles this. If they work with fear, it might happen again. But of course this one man or woman is not responsible for this.
The procedure needs to be reviewed of course. Why is such an important event the responsibility of one person? At least two persons should have to press two buttons and it should be made such that one person cannot press them both.
People saying nothing happened - I don't agree. This could cause serious problems for individuals, heart attacks, accidents. This is not without risk.
Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say
#270An interesting Reddit comment described a chaotic traffic situation for 20 minutes (people running lights, wrong-side-of-the-road driving, extreme speed, etc.). Human nature in these moments is very “Tragedy of the Commons” apparently.
It's good to see people react. There are lots of stories of people dying in disasters because they didn't take it seriously. E.g. sirens blaring for a tornado alert, and people are just continue mowing their lawns. Or people continue eating their meal when the building is on fire, who ended up dying.
And lots of those stories are from Hawaii! Many many people have died their due to tsunamis, etc. They take their warnings seriously (in the past they didnt have them for things like tsunamis)