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New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

papersplease.org

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Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#51

Post by JoshTriplett »

teraflop wrote: post #30

> “What is the password to this device?” is a verbal collection of information, which is prohibited by the Paperwork Reduction Act (PRA) unless it has been approved in advance by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), a “control number” has been assigned by OMB, and individuals from whom information is to be collected are given notice of this. I find this extremely implausible. If it were true, wouldn't it also i…

I'm not an expert in the applicability of that law, but if they're systematically asking people for passwords, that's not necessarily "addressed to a single person".

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#52

Post by [deleted] »

kylec wrote: post #48
jimnotgym wrote: post #18

I don't know if it worries my American chums, but I won't visit the USA. As a foreign tourist bringing money into your economy I feel there is a very real risk to my privacy and increasingly my person. I am beginning to favour goods and services from EU where human rights still mean something. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you how the US is perceived overseas, perhaps you don't want my money. Perhaps you don't mind be…

To be honest, I doubt the amount of money brought into the US by foreign tourists amounts to much in the big scheme of things. I respect your principled stand against the threats against your security and privacy by the US Government, but it won’t really make anyone here poorer.

[deleted]

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#53

Post by robin_reala »

kylec wrote: post #48
jimnotgym wrote: post #18

I don't know if it worries my American chums, but I won't visit the USA. As a foreign tourist bringing money into your economy I feel there is a very real risk to my privacy and increasingly my person. I am beginning to favour goods and services from EU where human rights still mean something. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you how the US is perceived overseas, perhaps you don't want my money. Perhaps you don't mind be…

To be honest, I doubt the amount of money brought into the US by foreign tourists amounts to much in the big scheme of things. I respect your principled stand against the threats against your security and privacy by the US Government, but it won’t really make anyone here poorer.

According to the World Bank[1] the US took in $246b in 2015 from international tourism.

[1]: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ST.INT.RCPT.CD?location...

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#55

Post by polotics »

saguro wrote: post #8
tehlike wrote: post #6

This should serve as a reminder to everyone to donate/support EFF and ACLU, as two of the very few organizations that watches for our rights. It is also a reminder that as we get more numb to issues like this, it gets worse. It is probably time to call your representatives and raise your voice.

Because calling paid-for representatives has such a strong record of success over the last decade of human rights erosion. Talking to your representative is roughly as useful in curbing these things, as doing nothing at all. What's the real solution?

Emigrate. Trust me, it works wonders.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#56

Post by koonsolo »

MentallyRetired wrote: post #28
nicolas_t wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes have to go to the US for business purposes but from now on will only do so with a wiped computer with just enough installed to look like a normal user's data.

wait, so you're actually a spy? What kind of user are you if not a normal one?

This works the other way around you know.

I knew some programmers who worked for a EU company that had a military contract.

When they traveled to US (talking around 2005 here), their entire harddisk was encrypted and they got a short education on how to handle certain suspicious situations.

US is known to use intelligence data any way they want, including economical gain. So if your laptop contains any confidential data of any big European company, it's already a good idea to not make that data available.

The whole Edward Snowden debate was only an issue because US was collecting data of their own citizens. Let's be honest, nobody cared who they were spying on abroad.

It's really sad to see how "friendly" nations treat each other like that.

So to answer your initial comment: The one who has the confidential information is not the spy. The spy is the one who wants to get access to it.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#57

Post by arethuza »

kylec wrote: post #48
jimnotgym wrote: post #18

I don't know if it worries my American chums, but I won't visit the USA. As a foreign tourist bringing money into your economy I feel there is a very real risk to my privacy and increasingly my person. I am beginning to favour goods and services from EU where human rights still mean something. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you how the US is perceived overseas, perhaps you don't want my money. Perhaps you don't mind be…

To be honest, I doubt the amount of money brought into the US by foreign tourists amounts to much in the big scheme of things. I respect your principled stand against the threats against your security and privacy by the US Government, but it won’t really make anyone here poorer.

"expenditures by international visitors in the United States totaled $244.7 billion in 2016"

https://www.selectusa.gov/travel-tourism-and-hospitality-ind...

About 1.3% of US GDP - which is maybe not significant to the US economy as a whole but I suspect that spending is very localized in locations that probably would suffer if foreign tourists reduced in numbers.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#58

Post by stedaniels »

kylec wrote: post #48
jimnotgym wrote: post #18

I don't know if it worries my American chums, but I won't visit the USA. As a foreign tourist bringing money into your economy I feel there is a very real risk to my privacy and increasingly my person. I am beginning to favour goods and services from EU where human rights still mean something. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you how the US is perceived overseas, perhaps you don't want my money. Perhaps you don't mind be…

To be honest, I doubt the amount of money brought into the US by foreign tourists amounts to much in the big scheme of things. I respect your principled stand against the threats against your security and privacy by the US Government, but it won’t really make anyone here poorer.

World Travel & Tourism Council Travel & Tourism Economic Impact 2017 United States

"Visitor exports generated USD 212.3bn, 9.5% of total exports in 2016. This is forecast to fall by 0.6% in 2017, and grow by 3.9% pa, from 2017-2027, to USD 309.7bn in 2027, 9.3% of total." [0]

US GDP in 2016 was USD 18624bn. [1]

So I suppose it's only 1.1% of GDP.

What's USD 212.3bn between frenemies huh? ;-)

[0] https://www.wttc.org/-/media/files/reports/economic-impact-r...

[1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location...

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#59

Post by kylec »

stedaniels wrote: post #58
kylec wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I doubt the amount of money brought into the US by foreign tourists amounts to much in the big scheme of things. I respect your principled stand against the threats against your security and privacy by the US Government, but it won’t really make anyone here poorer.

World Travel & Tourism Council Travel & Tourism Economic Impact 2017 United States "Visitor exports generated USD 212.3bn, 9.5% of total exports in 2016. This is forecast to fall by 0.6% in 2017, and grow by 3.9% pa, from 2017-2027, to USD 309.7bn in 2027, 9.3% of total." [0] US GDP in 2016 was USD 18624bn. [1] So I suppose it's only 1.1% of GDP. What's USD 212.3bn between frenemies huh? ;-) [0] https://www.wttc.org/…

Exactly. The complete loss of international tourism (and realistically there wouldn’t ever be a complete loss unless we closed the border) would result in a 1% loss for the US GDP/economy. Not nothing, but certainly not devastating.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#60

Post by chronic193 »

arethuza wrote: post #57
kylec wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I doubt the amount of money brought into the US by foreign tourists amounts to much in the big scheme of things. I respect your principled stand against the threats against your security and privacy by the US Government, but it won’t really make anyone here poorer.

"expenditures by international visitors in the United States totaled $244.7 billion in 2016" https://www.selectusa.gov/travel-tourism-and-hospitality-ind... About 1.3% of US GDP - which is maybe not significant to the US economy as a whole but I suspect that spending is very localized in locations that probably would suffer if foreign tourists reduced in numbers.

1% and that's if the borders are closed entirely to forbid any foreign tourist. The US will do just fine.
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