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The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

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Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#91

Post by gambiting »

angersock wrote: post #83
QAPereo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you're a gamer, why be nice to people that are willingly violating an IP that you love? Why? Because it is devoutly to be wished that you’re a human being with a brain, conscience, and at least a scrap of both empathy and perspective. If you’re so antisocial that you honestly believe that what you described merits abuse, threats, doxxing, etc... you shouldn’t be allowed online by your guardian. Messing with yo…

I mean, they had the same choice--not to work on fucking up the IP. And they have the potential to create suffering and annoyance to hundreds of thousands of people, instead of just a few people receiving grumpiness on the net. This is a dynamic that has always existed in art and performance. And for what it's worth, I don't think the option is "be nice" or "hurl abuse"...there is a distribution of behaviors and I'm…

>>I mean, they had the same choice--not to work on fucking up the IP.

This argument always strikes me as something said by a child or a person who never had a job and never had to feed their family ever in their life. I work as a C++ programmer in a games company - I really don't care what you think of the changes that I make, I have a Jira list of tasks to get through and have to pay my bills at the end of the month. If you want to send hate mail to someone, there's a PR email you can contact - normal programmers working 9 to 5 have zero say in design decisions that upset people, nor do they have the time to follow the community - we have PR people for that.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#92

Post by percival_krusen »

Digital-Citizen wrote: post #90
InclinedPlane wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about criticism this is about abuse. They are entirely different things. "Free speech" is also mostly irrelevant here. Nobody has the rights to dox or make threats of rape or homicide. Indeed, many of these behaviors are illegal but there's not much that can be done about them because the police don't have the resources to deal with them.

The bulk of the article is about reacting to largely inchoate disapproving reviews. Furthermore, those reviews (according to one post quoted in the article) make up one-tenth of one percent of disapproving reviews. That suggests it's quite easy to find a lot of reviews that aren't screeds. The article does a very poor job of explaining why it's worth taking such a small minority of angrily-worded reviews so personall…

Focusing on rape and homicide threats here.

I assume they are a very small proportion of feedback. On the other hand, in my current non-game-development career, customers never threaten to rape or kill me. Never ever! It's never happened!

It's great that people threatening rape or homicide comprise less than 1% of game customers and not 20% or 50% or 80%. But a little goes a long way, when it comes to people threatening to rape or kill you. Many people are going to treat those threats as a significant incentive to stay out of game development.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#93

Post by percival_krusen »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #84
dasil003 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cop-out? No, it's an explanation. How are you going to reverse the trend? First you have to understand the underlying factors. It's incredibly naive to think this type of impulse never existed before just because it's permanently recorded and visible for the first time.

Humans aren't feral, their patterns of behavior are dictated by culture, education, etc, regardless of "impulses". People may have impulses to hurt or steal from others, but those impulses can be controlled and the impacts of those impulses can be diminished on society. Socio-cultural norms and education teach people that there are other ways to get what you want than theft, for example, and provide strong discourage…

How do you hold people accountable without compromising anonymity, though? And if you compromise anonymity, how do you avoid a chilling effect on those who depend on it for e.g., political activism? Seems like a dilemma to me.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#94

Post by percival_krusen »

vtange wrote: post #51
sixtypoundhound wrote: post #2

This. Seriously, I run a bunch of FREE websites and I'm amazed by the stuff that shows up in my inbox. When did it become ok to harass someone running a FREE website? If you don't like it, hit the frigging back button. And get a life.

This reminds me of an article I read a long while back (I don't remember the title..) that basically argued that by lowering the barrier of entry to your content, be it a game, app, etc., you make it such that others have nothing to lose for slinging mud. IIRC the same article did a study on online free-to-play and subscription games and noticed that games with higher barrier of entry, be it with price or even a lott…

SomethingAwful.com had (perhaps it still has, haven't been in a while) some incredible forums because membership was $10. If you got banned you had to pay up to get access again. That made it possible to enforce strict rules on post quality and civility.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#95

Post by abiox »

guildwriter wrote: post #22
dorkwood wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first tweet they link to is directed at the makers of 'Firewatch', which doesn't have any in-app purchases at all. http://www.firewatchgame.com/ If Firewatch isn't safe, I'm not sure anything is.

The Firewatch devs took a public stand on the Pewdiepie drama and got hit in the head as a result. It went far beyond Twitter harassment and their Steam reviews got bombarded with negative reviews. The hate campaign they got has nothing to do with their development or business practices.

> took a public stand

it was also a declaration to "dmca takedown" his content even though permission have very explicitly been given. (this seems like it could be legally problematic, but not sure)... also publicly called for other game developers to participate in similar actions. seemed like some questionable ethics.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#96

Post by arkh »

swivelmaster wrote: post #39

I had a long phone conversation recently with a game industry friend who had the misfortune of being involved in multiple games that became targets of abuse. I had asked him for advice about potentially making some youtube videos about game design, including f2p game design (which I have substantial expertise in). He warned me that depending on the approach, even implying that I thought certain types of games or mone…

You just need to not give a fuck. It works for online interaction and it sure work for other parts of life. Care about what you can influence, don't about things you have no control over.

Someone cut in front of you in traffic: good for them. Someone insults you: heh, must be their own insecurities showing.

I think the only threshold for online interaction would be people threatening violence against you. If they do, file a police report then don't sweat it anymore.

Learn to not care about things and you'll endure a lot less stress. Then your life will feel a lot better.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#97

Post by arkh »

> Abuse is the cost of doing business.

Reading the article, that's the guy behind Firewatch. I think the problem is not his games but his social media use. I'd wager most of this abuse he received was after he DMCAed pewdiepie after pdp used the word nigga while playing. People don't like devs who have a "stream our game all you want it's free publicity for us" message when launching it and use spurious DMCA claims on people they don't like.

Maybe the problem are people who decided to make the video game industry woke and all about US centric politics. Or maybe the huge difference between the author and his father is "social" media and giving a damn about what is written there.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#98

Post by percival_krusen »

forapurpose wrote: post #61

The mistake is to take the users' comments at face value, IMHO. They are not that upset about a game; something else in their lives is painful for them and they are taking it out on you. They are unable to deal with their emotions otherwise. That perspective can help in a couple of ways: First, you know it has nothing to do with you or your game; you are just an object, a mental construction, at which they unload the…

My personal guess is that adolescent male humans have basically evolved to fight for survival and mating opportunities in violent Stone Age tribal societies. And the prefrontal cortex - that part of the brain that enables rational thought - doesn't finish developing until ten or more years after the onset of puberty.

Convincing them to act rationally, and not emotionally, in a nonviolent, conflict-averse, gender-equitable society is working against the grain. It clearly must be done. A just civilization depends on it. But I expect doing so will be difficult and involve unpleasant tradeoffs; I don't expect it to be easy or simple.

I think that women and some men may make the typical mind fallacy about young men that are irrational, emotional assholes. I don't think such young men have been insufficiently exposed to basic morals and etiquette. I think puberty hits people differently and that it hits many young men very hard in a particular way. Nature says "alright, time to start dominating others to ascend the Hobbesian tribal hierarchy" in a big way. Imagine being a male member of a violent ape species drugged into a stupor with aggression-inducing hormones while the small part of your brain capable of rational thought is still in diapers. That's my image of male adolescence.

Of course I'm speaking from personal bias here. I'm socially well adjusted now in my 30s. I pay my taxes. I recycle. I'm nice to people. And I'm an intelligent person. But I was a horrible teen; I terrorized my family, nearly destroyed my own life, and had to be sent to a therapeutic boarding school at 15. I was an idiot back then.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#100

Post by tremon »

arkh wrote: post #96
swivelmaster wrote: post #39

I had a long phone conversation recently with a game industry friend who had the misfortune of being involved in multiple games that became targets of abuse. I had asked him for advice about potentially making some youtube videos about game design, including f2p game design (which I have substantial expertise in). He warned me that depending on the approach, even implying that I thought certain types of games or mone…

You just need to not give a fuck. It works for online interaction and it sure work for other parts of life. Care about what you can influence, don't about things you have no control over. Someone cut in front of you in traffic: good for them. Someone insults you: heh, must be their own insecurities showing. I think the only threshold for online interaction would be people threatening violence against you. If they do,…

Apathy is not a healthy approach to life in general. Forcing yourself to feel "meh" about things you really did enjoy once is soul-crushing in itself.
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