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The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

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Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#71

This is just an ugly side of humanity that has always been there, but is magnified by the combination of anonymity, disenfranchisement, and ever more addicting Skinner-box style entertainment. We are a tribal species; in the past this type of behavior would be socialized out of you or else you would be a recluse. You didn't have the opportunity to sit in your own filth and project your self-loathing onto anyone acros…

We've been perfectly well-equipped to deal with this, but some people are particularly thin-skinned and apparently believe that it's the world's job to adjust to their delicate ego rather than understanding that part of growing up is understanding one's own agency.

Playwrights hundreds of years ago didn't like people publicly disapproving their plays, or low ticket sales due to bad word-of-mouth. People have been conveying disapproving reviews for as long as people have been doing something which can be reviewed. That hasn't changed even though there are so many more things which can be reviewed now. There's nothing unique about this situation in the context of video games.

What's telling about this article is that the phrase "free speech" doesn't make an appearance or get any serious consideration. Free speech means people will say things you don't like, convey ideas you disagree with. A principled approach to free speech is not censorship -- "moderation" as the first screenshot complainer is said to have written ("If I quit gamedev, it wont be because of money, or lack of love for the craft, it will be because of the attitude of the vocal 0.1% of gamers who nobody will moderate."[sic] some uncredited person allegedly wrote). Calling a harangue "abuse" is an attempt at conflating something dismissably rare ("0.1%" we're told) and indistinguishable from free speech with actual abuse. We're also told that stalking a game programmer's family happens less frequently than someone's harangue. But virtually no exposition is wasted on something which could very well be genuinely abusive of someone else.

If the disapproving reviews come from such a small minority, they should be easy to ignore or skip past, and one should gain practice in using their advanced technical skill to make a computer not show them what they don't want to read. Also, readers can choose their reaction to seeing a screed; talking about them as abuse victims denies their agency. They don't have to choose to be an alleged victim (the "abused"), they can choose to conclude that someone who replies with "CUNT" repeatedly (as "SaintNick" replied to "ChineseRoom") is irrational and not to be taken seriously.

And please stop talking about "voting with your wallet", a phrase that can be justifiably be said to mean that one intends for wealthy people to deserve more "votes" than poorer people. It should be sufficient to explain that one could choose not to buy the next game that publisher releases, which is probably what one meant to say in the first place.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#72

Up until about five years ago, I've only ever wanted to create and share video games. After a couple years doing it independently and getting my first professional game job, gamer gate happened. It's absolutely terrifying to see the lengths at which people will go to make someone's life a living hell. Every industry friend was affected, and reacted mostly by reducing their online presence, and I've done the same. Som…

Game design is a form of expression which requires substantial investment both from the developer and also from the participant. The customers have serious skin in this interaction in the form of money spent on the game, time invested in progression, social standing (sometimes you have to be playing this game because all your friends are playing it) and so on. This leads people to thinking that the moral high ground lies with them - they paid for this, they spent precious time, etc, etc - and the game developers should listen to them (and them alone).

In a way the relationship is like the archetypal "number one fan" for a musician, writer, artist in times past, who had seen all the shows and purchased all the books and now feels, because the object of their attentions has made a choice they disagree with, somehow they have been betrayed. What game development has done is lower the cost of entry into these toxic relationships.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#73

If this is such a problem, how about making a game that teaches people to show a little class instead of yet another 8-bit remake for supercomputers? Reminds me of that Don Daglow talk[0] at GDC Europe where he basically told them that Americans are idiots and how to cater to that. I would like to think that most people would do something less cynical if they had come to the same conclusion -- like Wozniak[1] did. [0…

> that teaches people to show a little class Are you serious? This will get you labeled as a "SJW" and then the crazies will DEFINITELY flock to you and try to Dox you. That's the easiest way to get a target painted on your back. If there's one thing on the internet that is dangerous, it is deciding to have social commentary in today's political environment.

Show, don't tell. Do it right, and no one will even notice what you're up to...

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#75

This is just an ugly side of humanity that has always been there, but is magnified by the combination of anonymity, disenfranchisement, and ever more addicting Skinner-box style entertainment. We are a tribal species; in the past this type of behavior would be socialized out of you or else you would be a recluse. You didn't have the opportunity to sit in your own filth and project your self-loathing onto anyone acros…

We've been perfectly well-equipped to deal with this, but some people are particularly thin-skinned and apparently believe that it's the world's job to adjust to their delicate ego rather than understanding that part of growing up is understanding one's own agency. Playwrights hundreds of years ago didn't like people publicly disapproving their plays, or low ticket sales due to bad word-of-mouth. People have been con…

This is not about criticism this is about abuse. They are entirely different things. "Free speech" is also mostly irrelevant here. Nobody has the rights to dox or make threats of rape or homicide. Indeed, many of these behaviors are illegal but there's not much that can be done about them because the police don't have the resources to deal with them.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#76
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m assuming no such thing. I’m saying this is a “have your cake and eat it too” issue. Either you’re accessible to millions or you arent, and that choice comes with benefits and drawbacks. If one can’t handle the drawbacks of being publicly accessible to millions, one should go to great pains to prevent that, rather than lamenting the inevitable - and I do mean inevitable - long tail of jerks. And when I say “run in…

Right, you are simply saying, “if they don’t want to be abused they should hide”

I am saying, “if you don’t want the drawbacks of celebrity, don’t engage with masses of people.”

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#77

I had a long phone conversation recently with a game industry friend who had the misfortune of being involved in multiple games that became targets of abuse. I had asked him for advice about potentially making some youtube videos about game design, including f2p game design (which I have substantial expertise in). He warned me that depending on the approach, even implying that I thought certain types of games or mone…

As things move away from the real world and towards increased virtualization of everything, it's a lot easier for people to fall prey to "road rage" type of reactions - folks who are otherwise well-behaved and respectable turn into assholes behind the wheel. Same with the virtual world.

Virtual road rage is certainly a large part of this--I always use the analogy that if you have 1000 twitter followers, and they are wonderful people all the time but each one only says one nasty thing a year to you, if they all do it at the same week or whatever it's gonna be brutal.

That said, I think there is also a lot of justified anger.

In a world that is increasingly terrible and hostile in a lot of ways it's really important to have a safe place, a place to unwind and settle down, place where people can tune in and drop out. Video games are really great for this purpose.

But a lot of devs don't seem to recognize that this is an important purpose of their product, either going low-brow capitalist (say, EA or Zynga or Bethesda) or high-brow artiste (Phil Fish, Jonathon Blow) and alienating their playerbase by breaking games in order to create higher profits, by patching games endlessly in the name of "gameplay" (Darkest Dungeon is a great example of this, ditto a lot of Blizzard's stuff), or by taking very public stands against various sacred cows of their customers--that is when they're not actively saying nasty things about their customers. As a gamer, why wouldn't you voice your displeasure at the people who are screwing up your ability to calm down and relax?

Similarly, even on the art angle, a lot of publishers and devs make compromises to push a message or sell a product. Like, can you imagine the backlash at a Holy Bible 3.0: HD Edition 2018, with DLC psalms? Game devs and publishers do this all the time. Imagine you heard they were making Rent 2.0, but everybody was straight and monogamous and only had the flu and were upper-middle class. Even if it was done well, even if it was a good story, it wouldn't be Rent. That's even assuming the change was done expertly--in video games it's usually a studio or a publisher chasing some market demographic or "industry trend" causing that violation of the IP and seldom is it even done well! So, if you're a gamer, why be nice to people that are willingly violating an IP that you love?

Further, on the PR front, gamers have gotten used to being fed thinly veiled bullshit as the industry has "matured". The same flaccid attempts to gloss over bugs or mistakes, the same lame attempts to use identity to sell a game, the same boring controversies and plant articles used to increase air time...it's insulting. So, why have empathy for (some random indie dev) when the industry as a whole is not behaving in good faith? Why not treat every dev communication as a weakly-spun PR gambit? Why show any charity at all?

~

I agree that this is bad behavior, and I agree that drive-by virtual road rage accounts for a lot of it...but not all of it.

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#79
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As things move away from the real world and towards increased virtualization of everything, it's a lot easier for people to fall prey to "road rage" type of reactions - folks who are otherwise well-behaved and respectable turn into assholes behind the wheel. Same with the virtual world.

It’s also a bunch of young people, who tend to assume that turning the rhetorical volume up to 11 does something more than inspire disgust. Chan “culture” has not helped. people with the most time to burn are asymmetrically advantaged in this, as are the enraged. Can any of us really compete in terms of obsessive devotion, with a 1-issue poster? An angry, lonely person, a mentally ill person, or a teen with attitude?…

> An angry, lonely person, a mentally ill person, or a teen with attitude? They’ll burn more cycles screaming than anyone else can or will reasoning, and they’re happy to just be a nuisance, or be heard.

Many years ago, a small country where I live was dominated online by a single mentally ill person. In our country, those day the internet was new and quite slow. This person, originally from our country, was living somewhere in USA or Canada, with full disability for their mental illness, and a very fast internet connection. And they spent the whole day browsing our websites (the dozen major websites we had back then), participating in almost every discussion that contained some of their favorite keywords. And because of the difference in free time available and speed of internet connection, most admins were completely helpless. This person could create a new account and post hundred comments faster than the admins could use their slow modems to ban the account; and the avalanche continued for 16 hours a day, every day.

Yes, insane people have an asymmetrical advantage at online debates, because they spend less time reading and thinking. (In real life, too, but there at least they cannot teleport from one place to another.)

Re: The problem of game developers receiving abusive messages

#80

I had a long phone conversation recently with a game industry friend who had the misfortune of being involved in multiple games that became targets of abuse. I had asked him for advice about potentially making some youtube videos about game design, including f2p game design (which I have substantial expertise in). He warned me that depending on the approach, even implying that I thought certain types of games or mone…

As things move away from the real world and towards increased virtualization of everything, it's a lot easier for people to fall prey to "road rage" type of reactions - folks who are otherwise well-behaved and respectable turn into assholes behind the wheel. Same with the virtual world.

I think this is not even the case.

I think these people are arseholes IRL. I think they are just as abusive and prone to road rage type reactions.

I don't think people are reasonable and respectable and suddenly road rage when they jump in the car. They are arseholes all the time, they just can't hide it as well when they drive.

I think they are more visible online only because they just impact less people IRL.

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