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Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

nature.com

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Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#71

Post by quantumofmalice »

zer00eyz wrote: post #67
quantumofmalice wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By HN standards I would be considered opposed to homosexuality and I am opposed to abortion. The idea of aborting a baby due to their likely sexuality is as horrifying to me as sex-selective abortion. I don't view this as a quandry whatsoever.

Thanks for your candor: Since were in the realm of hypothetical, I would like to ask you a question. If we manage to identify homosexuality as a genetic disorder, and we determined that there was a 99.999% chance that your children would be homosexual, what would you do?

That would be a tough situation, I'm not sure. My first thought is that the moral choice for me would be to accept celibacy and try to do the best I can for others in that role.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#72

Post by epistasis »

coffeeboy27 wrote: post #7
bmsran wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most important statement in the paper.

Let's pretend I don't have a PhD and don't know what that statement means though, can I get a summary?

Shorter and less accurate than the Wikipedia page: A SNP is a single nucleotide polymorphism, a single letter variation in a genome. This study measured about half a million SNPs for each person. A statistical test is then performed to see how well each SNP site predicts the trait, generating a p-value. If a single such test were being performed, then typical "significant" p-value levels would be 0.05 or 0.01 or 0.001, these are arbitrary but generally accepted. For data from SNPs unassocisted with the trait, p-values come randomly and uniformlay from the range 0 to 1. So with a hundred SNPs unassocisted with the trait, a person would expect about one p-value at <= 0.01. There are many ways to correct for these multiple hypothesis tests. For GWAS, the generally accepted significance levels are 5e-8, which under the rubric of the fancily named but simple Bonferroni correction, would be equivalent to a 0.01 to 0.05 p-value from a single test. These two reported SNPs, when correcting for multiple testing, don't meet the standard definition of significant.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#73

Post by pzone »

peatmoss wrote: post #5

Wow, the bioethical implications of potentially identifying the mechanism of sexual orientation are staggering. I wonder if / how long it will be before parents have the technical means—if not the legal right—to alter their child to be gay or straight through gene therapy. Or even simply selectively bring to term one orientation or the other.

The notion that sexual orientation could be genetically selected for at birth is science fiction. We know for a fact that no one gene or set of genes causes homosexuality - it's "biopsychosocial" in nature.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#74

Post by debatem1 »

quantumofmalice wrote: post #71
zer00eyz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your candor: Since were in the realm of hypothetical, I would like to ask you a question. If we manage to identify homosexuality as a genetic disorder, and we determined that there was a 99.999% chance that your children would be homosexual, what would you do?

That would be a tough situation, I'm not sure. My first thought is that the moral choice for me would be to accept celibacy and try to do the best I can for others in that role.

Out of curiosity, why not select life? Everybody sins-- why not accept that maybe this sin is more likely and love the children that might be born to you?

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#75

Post by quantumofmalice »

debatem1 wrote: post #74
quantumofmalice wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a tough situation, I'm not sure. My first thought is that the moral choice for me would be to accept celibacy and try to do the best I can for others in that role.

Out of curiosity, why not select life? Everybody sins-- why not accept that maybe this sin is more likely and love the children that might be born to you?

That's a reasonable perspective. I would have to ask my children to remain celibate, though, and would it be fair to put that burden on them, even (maybe especially) if they didn't accept it?

It seems more fair to me if I bear the burden of my moral framework, given the proposed determinism.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#76

Post by grondilu »

zer00eyz wrote: post #26
peatmoss wrote: post #5

Wow, the bioethical implications of potentially identifying the mechanism of sexual orientation are staggering. I wonder if / how long it will be before parents have the technical means—if not the legal right—to alter their child to be gay or straight through gene therapy. Or even simply selectively bring to term one orientation or the other.

In reading your comment I was struck by the dilemma that this reality would bring. Those most opposed to homosexuality are those most opposed to terminating pregnancy (mostly). It would create quite a quandary for folks who are inclined to hold these two beliefs.

Well, there's always preimplantation genetic diagnosis[1] and CRISPR. That wouldn't require the termination of any pregnancy.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preimplantation_genetic_diagno...

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#77

Post by azinman2 »

debatem1 wrote: post #74
quantumofmalice wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a tough situation, I'm not sure. My first thought is that the moral choice for me would be to accept celibacy and try to do the best I can for others in that role.

Out of curiosity, why not select life? Everybody sins-- why not accept that maybe this sin is more likely and love the children that might be born to you?

Why do you have to go to sin? What’s sinful about being born any which way?

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#78

Post by peteretep »

gh02t wrote: post #50
brucephillips wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your genes might predispose you towards one path or another, but there is still free will involved. Genetic determinism is not the same as free will. Our genes don't determine everything, but together with our environment, they do.

They don't determine everything is my point. Environment paired with genetics has a strong (sometimes overwhelming) influence on the decisions you make for sure, and they make many decisions harder or easier, but you still maintain the ability to choose. Free will isn't the ability to make any choice without external influences, it's just that you have a choice at all.

> They don't determine everything is my point

What else affects agency? I think you have to look to religion, rather than science, to come to any conclusion other than human actions being essentially deterministic.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#80

Post by jschwartzi »

azinman2 wrote: post #77
debatem1 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, why not select life? Everybody sins-- why not accept that maybe this sin is more likely and love the children that might be born to you?

Why do you have to go to sin? What’s sinful about being born any which way?

Because the people who would want to get rid of their homosexual children want to do so because they consider it a sin.
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