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Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

nature.com

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Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#41

Post by 8bitsrule »

avodonosov wrote: post #16
Afforess wrote: post #4

I suspect that as we come to better understand genetics, we (as a society) are going to be more and more uncomfortable with the findings that we uncover. Physics and mathematics have made it long since clear that the universe is deterministic, that all the answers lie in the genes and atoms and equations we are made up of. The implications of this are dire - our society is built on exactly the opposite foundations; l…

> Physics and mathematics have made it long since clear that the universe is deterministic Have they?

As I recall, the theologists held similarly self-promoting illusions centuries ago. I also recall that early scientists declared that the universe is a clockwork. I also recall that Lord Kelvin, in the late 1800s, declared that physics was all finished except for a few minor details.

The physical universe is not a complete mystery. To the extent that certain phenomena can be agreed to procede from other phenomena in a repeatable fashion, there is indeed reason to celebrate. As many wise men have pointed out, however, we are very small and the universe is very great. The extent of that which we do not understand at all is good reason to suspect that we must continue to deliberately blind ourselves if we are to keep patting ourselves on the back.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#42

Post by itronitron »

flukus wrote: post #32
peatmoss wrote: post #5

Wow, the bioethical implications of potentially identifying the mechanism of sexual orientation are staggering. I wonder if / how long it will be before parents have the technical means—if not the legal right—to alter their child to be gay or straight through gene therapy. Or even simply selectively bring to term one orientation or the other.

It's interesting how the timing has an effect on the ethical implications as well. If we had this technology 50 years ago it would be a clear cut case of selecting the straight genes only. This discovery coming now means that the debate could go the other way (no interfering). Much of the world is also less friendly to homosexuality, to put it lightly. I wonder if they will eliminate it entirely?

The countries that could afford this type of intervention are typically much more friendly than the countries that could not afford this.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#43

Post by md224 »

throwacide wrote: post #31

I gave my saliva to 23andme two years ago. I’ve been suicidal my whole life. If genetic markers for suicidal tendencies are discovered in the future, can they use my stored sample to assist in such studies?

> I’ve been suicidal my whole life.

That’s pretty intense. Have you tried medication or therapy? Or anything else?

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#44

Post by MAGZine »

throws990 wrote: post #18

First critique that immediately comes to mind is how the 1,077 homosexual men and 1,231 heterosexual men were selected. If Republicans have taught us anything, it's that self-reporting is not an accurate measure. From the paper: "classified men as homosexual based on both their self-reported sexual identity and sexual feelings" Furthermore, how does this study explain sexual fluidity? IE: I liked kissing boys when I…

Is this a troll? How do you intend to determine whether or not if someone is of an orientation EXCEPT for asking them?

"I'm gay."

"Well my 'science test' says that you're not."

Nice.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#45

Post by pm »

Afforess wrote: post #4

I suspect that as we come to better understand genetics, we (as a society) are going to be more and more uncomfortable with the findings that we uncover. Physics and mathematics have made it long since clear that the universe is deterministic, that all the answers lie in the genes and atoms and equations we are made up of. The implications of this are dire - our society is built on exactly the opposite foundations; l…

None of us are dealt an equal hand in life. Having a genetic predisposition that advantages or disadvantages someone does not absolve them of the responsibility of their actions. If we were unchanging machines, that may not be the case, but it's much more complex than we give it credit for, and the debate is unlikely to be resolved anytime soon.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#46

Post by brucephillips »

zmmmmm wrote: post #11
coffeeboy27 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's pretend I don't have a PhD and don't know what that statement means though, can I get a summary?

It means the result could plausibly have occurred just by chance. The odds may be against it being chance, but it is at least plausible.

Eh, not really. What you said is true of any p value. It's tautological.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#47

Post by sigmar »

epistasis wrote: post #29

Before anybody jumps to conclusions, these are not definitive findings. They are extremely important findings for those performing active research on the topic, but are not of general interest to those who are not performing research. The next steps will be to see if this holds in other cohorts, and in other populations, etc.

Agreed. That manhattan plot is... far from conclusive.

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#48

Post by itronitron »

taneq wrote: post #35
throws990 wrote: post #18

First critique that immediately comes to mind is how the 1,077 homosexual men and 1,231 heterosexual men were selected. If Republicans have taught us anything, it's that self-reporting is not an accurate measure. From the paper: "classified men as homosexual based on both their self-reported sexual identity and sexual feelings" Furthermore, how does this study explain sexual fluidity? IE: I liked kissing boys when I…

Next paper: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14 linked to willingness to participate in scientific studies.

sci-curious

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#49

Post by brucephillips »

MAGZine wrote: post #44
throws990 wrote: post #18

First critique that immediately comes to mind is how the 1,077 homosexual men and 1,231 heterosexual men were selected. If Republicans have taught us anything, it's that self-reporting is not an accurate measure. From the paper: "classified men as homosexual based on both their self-reported sexual identity and sexual feelings" Furthermore, how does this study explain sexual fluidity? IE: I liked kissing boys when I…

Is this a troll? How do you intend to determine whether or not if someone is of an orientation EXCEPT for asking them? "I'm gay." "Well my 'science test' says that you're not." Nice.

The inability to avoid selection bias doesn't preclude selection bias.

Not to say the above comment makes any sense...

Re: Two genes in Chromosomes 13 and 14, linked to Homosexuality

#50

Post by gh02t »

brucephillips wrote: post #40
gh02t wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I don't know if you want to take it quite that far. Your genes might predispose you towards one path or another, but there is still free will involved. Complex sociological events like someone committing a criminal act can't just be reduced to "their genes made them do it." There are other factors involved and they are far more complex than what can be reduced to simple genetics. I think sexual orientation is pro…

> Your genes might predispose you towards one path or another, but there is still free will involved. Genetic determinism is not the same as free will. Our genes don't determine everything, but together with our environment, they do.

They don't determine everything is my point. Environment paired with genetics has a strong (sometimes overwhelming) influence on the decisions you make for sure, and they make many decisions harder or easier, but you still maintain the ability to choose. Free will isn't the ability to make any choice without external influences, it's just that you have a choice at all.
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