Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot • Hacker News Board

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#31

Post by StillBored » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

lunorian wrote: post #27

valarauca1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really should. The problem is this nearly every single processor Intel shipped for a decade so Intel doesn't have the cash flow to RMA that many replacements. They're going to fight tooth and nail to avoid this.

Wait if a court forces Intel to replace processors with a safe one does that mean I get new macbook?

I can't imagine a court doing anything. The cost to intel is simply to high, and its not like they were negligent given that ARM/POWER/etc are all vulnerable to some extent too.

This whole thing is the equivalent of discovering that if someone throws enough nails on the road your car will blow a tire, spin out of control and kill you. With the kneejerk reaction of trying to fill everyone's tires with concrete to avoid the tires blowing out rather than trying to figure out how to keep people from throwing nails on the road (with the idea that spiteful users are more likely on toll roads) in the first place.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#32

Post by occams_chainsaw » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #29

JonRB wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this affect all of their CPUs going a long way back? And how do you recall embedded or laptop CPUs, which are often soldered in-place? A recall would be great, but there's no way they'd be able to do it. Vehicle recalls are a bit different because they impact physical safety. Digital safety doesn't get the same priority.

even if it affects all speculative CPUs, if this happened in the car world, all the cars would be recalled. Not saying that is practical in computer world...just continuing with the analogy. Spectre/Meltdown is a wakeup call for many things, one of them probably being for computer manufacturers to not solder the CPU to the Motherboard and for the x86 world to stick with a standard socket, to facilitate replacing part…

That's why using non-OEM parts in your car voids the warranty.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#33

Post by hansendc » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

This arch/x86/events/intel/ds.c fix is unlikely to have rendered too many things unbootable. I missed ds.c entirely when doing the original implementation. I can't fault the nice folks at Canonical for mis-merging a tiny hunk like this. It really only affects pretty specific hardware anyway.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#34

Post by geofft » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:22 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #17

jonathonf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/4.4.0-109.132 : linux (4.4.0-109.132) xenial; urgency=low * linux: 4.4.0-109.132 -proposed tracker (LP: #1742252) * Kernel trace with xenial 4.4 (4.4.0-108.131, Candidate kernels for PTI fix) (LP: #1741934) - SAUCE: kaiser: fix perf crashes - fix to original commit diff'ing the two changes it was this: > diff -u linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/events/intel/ds.c linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/eve…

They consider a bug that renders the OS unable to boot a "low" urgency!?!

I don't think the urgency field is meaningful in Ubuntu, especially for post-release fixes - I believe a package migrates as soon as it's approved and passes builds/tests. The urgency field comes from Debian, which uses it to describe how many days a package should sit in Debian unstable before migrating to Debian testing, in the hopes that if it's buggy, people will file a bug before it migrates to testing. The Debian default is now "medium" (5 days) instead of "low" (10 days), but people with older tools tend to generate changelog entries that say "low". (And even in Debian, I don't think the field has any meaning for post-release updates; I think it only applies to unstable-to-testing migrations.)

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#35

Post by mjevans » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

valarauca1 wrote: post #15

ask098 wrote: post #2

it's the fault of Intel, why don't they recall all the CPU? just like vehicle company

They really should. The problem is this nearly every single processor Intel shipped for a decade so Intel doesn't have the cash flow to RMA that many replacements. They're going to fight tooth and nail to avoid this.

In reality they could probably argue standard depreciation on a product and offer the remaining value as a discount towards a working product... only there currently aren't any equivalent products on the market. AMD's CPUs are still affected by lower profile variants of this, but aren't as /horridly/ broken.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#36

Post by bcantrill » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #14

QAPereo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With money, and a handwritten apology soaked in the tears of their C-levels? Or just the money actually. If you can’t replace my broken item, a refund is always appreciated.

Bryan Cantrill refrence has been noted.

That was a reference to me? If so -- I'm flattered. I haven't yet asked Intel to soak a written apology with their tears, but it's an excellent idea! (I have, however, given them many other candid thoughts on how they can improve their handling of Spectre and Meltdown -- but so far, to no avail.)

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#37

Post by vvanders » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #13

JonRB wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this affect all of their CPUs going a long way back? And how do you recall embedded or laptop CPUs, which are often soldered in-place? A recall would be great, but there's no way they'd be able to do it. Vehicle recalls are a bit different because they impact physical safety. Digital safety doesn't get the same priority.

Also vehicle recalls are usually done by fixing stuff next time the vehicle comes in for regularly scheduled service. How often does your computer get those?

Depends on the recall, the GM ignition recall was done on an independent appt basis.

(besides you should not be taking your car to the dealer if you value your wallet)

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#38

Post by aaomidi » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

gkya wrote: post #20

Would this entire Meltdown/Spectre thing count as the biggest mess-up of computing history? When yesterday the PoC repo was posted here, the spy.mp4 demo video gave me some chills. And now I can't update my OS before making an installation USB because Canonical can't just follow Linus' releases. Thanks.

Link to the demo?

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#39

Post by zerohp » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

occams_chainsaw wrote: post #32

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even if it affects all speculative CPUs, if this happened in the car world, all the cars would be recalled. Not saying that is practical in computer world...just continuing with the analogy. Spectre/Meltdown is a wakeup call for many things, one of them probably being for computer manufacturers to not solder the CPU to the Motherboard and for the x86 world to stick with a standard socket, to facilitate replacing part…

That's why using non-OEM parts in your car voids the warranty.

No it doesn't. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 forces them to honor the warranty unless they can prove that the non-OEM part caused the fault.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#40

Post by mycpuorg » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

Please look under "Meltdown - x86" section in GKH's (The Stable Kernel Maintainer) blog: http://www.kroah.com/log/