Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot • Hacker News Board

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#11

Post by hodgesrm » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

StillBored wrote: post #6

hodgesrm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might just create yet more problems. You can't just plug a new CPU into your motherboard--it has to match the socket, chipset, memory, installed OS, etc.

Well if they didn't change the socket every year... Realistically though, they might be able to do it for cpu's that aren't soldered on (think just about every laptop) made in the last year or two, but would they really fab new versions of 10 year old cores? Its not like many of those lines are even running anymore, so they would basically have to redesign/layout and reverify everything. Probably easier/cheaper just…

Or give a price break on future hardware. The fix is turning out to be incredibly expensive for ordinary users, virtualization vendors, hardware vendors, OS providers, cloud providers, etc.

This incident demonstrates why you really don't want catastrophic bugs in the CPU. The fact that the hardware vendors missed this one makes you wonder what else is out there.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#12

Post by jonathonf » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

noncoml wrote: post #7

What was the problem? All the notes say is that 109 fixes it.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/4.4.0-109.132 :

    linux (4.4.0-109.132) xenial; urgency=low
    
      * linux: 4.4.0-109.132 -proposed tracker (LP: #1742252)
    
      * Kernel trace with xenial 4.4  (4.4.0-108.131, Candidate kernels for PTI fix)
        (LP: #1741934)
        - SAUCE: kaiser: fix perf crashes - fix to original commit

diff'ing the two changes it was this:

    > diff -u linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/events/intel/ds.c linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/events/intel/ds.c
    > --- linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/events/intel/ds.c
    > +++ linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/events/intel/ds.c
    > @@ -415,7 +415,6 @@
    >  		return;
    >  
    >  	per_cpu(cpu_hw_events, cpu).ds = NULL;
    > -	kfree(ds);
    >  }
    >  
    >  void release_ds_buffers(void)

plus it's here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1741934...

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#13

Post by semi-extrinsic » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

JonRB wrote: post #5

ask098 wrote: post #2

it's the fault of Intel, why don't they recall all the CPU? just like vehicle company

Doesn't this affect all of their CPUs going a long way back? And how do you recall embedded or laptop CPUs, which are often soldered in-place? A recall would be great, but there's no way they'd be able to do it. Vehicle recalls are a bit different because they impact physical safety. Digital safety doesn't get the same priority.

Also vehicle recalls are usually done by fixing stuff next time the vehicle comes in for regularly scheduled service. How often does your computer get those?

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#14

Post by imglorp » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:51 PM UTC

QAPereo wrote: post #9

bitL wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would they replace the bad part when a good one doesn't exist?

With money, and a handwritten apology soaked in the tears of their C-levels? Or just the money actually. If you can’t replace my broken item, a refund is always appreciated.

Bryan Cantrill refrence has been noted.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#15

Post by valarauca1 » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:52 PM UTC

ask098 wrote: post #2

it's the fault of Intel, why don't they recall all the CPU? just like vehicle company

They really should.

The problem is this nearly every single processor Intel shipped for a decade so Intel doesn't have the cash flow to RMA that many replacements. They're going to fight tooth and nail to avoid this.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#16

Post by user5994461 » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:52 PM UTC

Did ubuntu botched an update again? Or is it the upstream kernel?

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#17

Post by AdmiralAsshat » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

jonathonf wrote: post #12

noncoml wrote: post #7

What was the problem? All the notes say is that 109 fixes it.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/4.4.0-109.132 : linux (4.4.0-109.132) xenial; urgency=low * linux: 4.4.0-109.132 -proposed tracker (LP: #1742252) * Kernel trace with xenial 4.4 (4.4.0-108.131, Candidate kernels for PTI fix) (LP: #1741934) - SAUCE: kaiser: fix perf crashes - fix to original commit diff'ing the two changes it was this: > diff -u linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/events/intel/ds.c linux-4.4.0/arch/x86/eve…

They consider a bug that renders the OS unable to boot a "low" urgency!?!

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#18

Post by willk » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

ask098 wrote: post #2

it's the fault of Intel, why don't they recall all the CPU? just like vehicle company

Is this endangering the life of anyone? A car manufacturer doesn't do a recall if personal safety isn't at risk.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#19

Post by MBCook » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

valarauca1 wrote: post #15

ask098 wrote: post #2

it's the fault of Intel, why don't they recall all the CPU? just like vehicle company

They really should. The problem is this nearly every single processor Intel shipped for a decade so Intel doesn't have the cash flow to RMA that many replacements. They're going to fight tooth and nail to avoid this.

Not a decade or so. Since the Pentium Pro.

So since ‘95 or ‘96.

Re: Meltdown Update Kernel doesnt boot

#20

Post by gkya » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:02 PM UTC

Would this entire Meltdown/Spectre thing count as the biggest mess-up of computing history? When yesterday the PoC repo was posted here, the spy.mp4 demo video gave me some chills. And now I can't update my OS before making an installation USB because Canonical can't just follow Linus' releases. Thanks.