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Building for the Blockchain

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Building for the Blockchain

#31

Post by iman453 »

furyofantares wrote: post #22
api wrote: post #2

Yet so far I still see almost nothing on the block chain (beyond its core currency use case) that is useful outside the domain of block chain stuff. The only exception is things like Sia, and that's not cost or convenience competitive with Amazon S3 or Backblaze. Where is the value here? When I visited this I was expecting to see at least something about building something useful for... something... Building what for…

The post does kind of explain that. In the centralized world with a thin protocol layer that captures little value and a fat application layer that captures a lot, we see far, far more development in the application layer. When you invert where the most value is captured, you invest where the most work is done. That said, all sorts of open source projects have shown that there are plenty of people willing to sacrific…

Isn't end user adoption driver by the application layer though. If the application layer developers aren't incentivized and don't build things on the protocol layer, what's the point of the protocol layer?

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#32

Post by hiq »

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #17
arkona wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A distributed, append-only cryptographic ledger Pardon my ignorance, but isn’t that what a blockchain is?

A distributed ledger doesn't necessarily mean a decentralized one. This is a handy reference to decide if you're building a cryptographic ledger or a blockchain: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/e49d2bdc9dfec4adc9da8a8434f...

I think the confusion stems from permissioned vs permissionless blockchain, and the comment you replied assumed you were talking about one instead of the other. I find the plain term "blockchain" rather vague in that regard.

In addition to this github gist, I like http://doyouneedablockchain.com/ .

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#33

Post by sf_rob »

goodroot wrote: post #3

> For one, Ethereum is unable to access real time data from outside the blockchain. Developers need to rely on trusted third party data providers, called oracles, to provide smart contracts with outside information like weather, random numbers, or currency values. I feel like this is more of a feature than a bug. If you're weaving applications into the blockchain, would it really be wise to have that chain communicat…

I took this as a point of explaining what Oracles are/do. Too often Ethereum proponents skip talking about Oracles when it comes to discussing attack vectors on Eth smart contracts.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#35

Post by decorator »

Ethereum isn't decentralised to a large degree (see the DOA). Given such a thing, one may as well use a standard web stack.

Also, that makes any guides written for devs on the subject of negative utility. It wastes their time; since the premise, that the new paradigm derives its value from censorship resistance, is breached.

It takes some serious non-thinking to support Ethereum. The price is high, the value is low.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#36

Post by TheDong »

arkona wrote: post #15
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #11

People are trying to solve a lot of interesting problems with blockchain, but I fear it's become the ultimate shoehorn solution for the modern era. See also: https://tonyarcieri.com/on-the-dangers-of-a-blockchain-monoc... I've had meetings with prospective clients that opened with, "We have $problem, can we use blockchain to solve it?" where anything that doesn't qualify as a blockchain is cast to the wayside because…

> A distributed, append-only cryptographic ledger Pardon my ignorance, but isn’t that what a blockchain is?

No, that's what a write-ahead-log is, or quite a few various databases, or a git branch are.

The key innovation of the blockchain was the use of proof-of-work in order to associate an amount of computer-time with a given block, and then pick, from competing views of a blockchain, which view took the most energy to arrive at... all while being resistant to a small number of subversive actors.

In short, the blockchain solved the Byzantine Generals’ Problem, and happened to use a append-only cryptographic ledger as part of it.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#37

Post by patrickaljord »

nileshtrivedi wrote: post #20
jaequery wrote: post #12

Where I can see blockchain being more 'actually' useful is in simple things, like verifying the integrity of the app (or anything really), ala checksum hashes. It makes a lot of sense for us to store them on the blockchain rather than hosting it on a webpage.

You need blockchain only when you want to prevent double spending of _something_. A linked list where only one node can have a valid pointer to the previous node. For checksum hashes, unless double spending is a problem, IPFS will suffoce.

You don't need a blockchain to prevent double spending. You only need a blockchain if you want the double spending prevention to happen between trustless distributed peers.

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#38

Post by davejohnclark »

api wrote: post #14
goodroot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might like this example, it puts decentralized smart-contracts in a digestible context: https://germanylandofinnovation.com/2016/10/19/german-compan... -- Under the prototype, users interact with the charging station by agreeing to a smart contract that is programmed on top of the Ethereum network. Prior to charging, the user makes a deposit on the network, which is later released after the transaction is complet…

How is paying for electricity with Ethereum better for me than paying with a card? I don't see the advantage. When VisiCalc was demo'ed there were people lined up literally pulling out their checkbooks and offering to pay almost limitless amounts of money for the prototype. Spreadsheets had insane value to accountants. Other than the core use case of currency that I mentioned, where are the "killer apps" for block ch…

Have you come across https://www.provenance.org? It's outside the currency/wire transfer space. Looked like an interesting application to me, but possibly too nascent to be a shining example

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#39

Post by bitoneill »

api wrote: post #2

Yet so far I still see almost nothing on the block chain (beyond its core currency use case) that is useful outside the domain of block chain stuff. The only exception is things like Sia, and that's not cost or convenience competitive with Amazon S3 or Backblaze. Where is the value here? When I visited this I was expecting to see at least something about building something useful for... something... Building what for…

Ten years in, nobody has come up with a use for blockchain

https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-...

Re: Building for the Blockchain

#40

Post by goodroot »

api wrote: post #14
goodroot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might like this example, it puts decentralized smart-contracts in a digestible context: https://germanylandofinnovation.com/2016/10/19/german-compan... -- Under the prototype, users interact with the charging station by agreeing to a smart contract that is programmed on top of the Ethereum network. Prior to charging, the user makes a deposit on the network, which is later released after the transaction is complet…

How is paying for electricity with Ethereum better for me than paying with a card? I don't see the advantage. When VisiCalc was demo'ed there were people lined up literally pulling out their checkbooks and offering to pay almost limitless amounts of money for the prototype. Spreadsheets had insane value to accountants. Other than the core use case of currency that I mentioned, where are the "killer apps" for block ch…

The big feature of the car example comes within the third paragraph. It's decentralized. The node, the charging station, doesn't need to phone home or synchronize with a central authority in order to process the payment. It can write and fulfill the contract.

It may be the case that the fundamental, key, killer features of the blockchain have lost their initial lustre to many people, and I understand that. But decentralization and verifiable, consistent truth are a really, really big deal.

There are applications with promise, large promise. Killer apps? Maybe. They will arrive, it's more "which of these" and not "whether these":

* https://ambrosus.com:

"At the Ambrosus project we aim to radically improve the global supply chains by creating a trusted ecosystem where we can reliably record the entire history of products and execute commercial transactions accordingly."

* http://www.augur.net:

Prediction markets -- fascinating stuff with major potential.

* https://qz.com/1163660/brazil-may-write-new-laws-based-on-da...

Brazil experimenting with laws/petitions on the blockchain

... There are many amazing use-cases.

The reason this YC article was published is because there is a great demand for blockchain from investors.

Ignore it or doubt it at your own peril!

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