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The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

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Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#391

Post by jackvalentine »

vorotato wrote: post #127
Chaebixi wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have evidence for that claim? You know your parents said the same about you with your computer games. You're asking me to provide you evidence of a widely written about social phenomena while simultaneously claiming to know about my youth and what my parents thought about my activities? >>> Most of the profitable skills I know are self-taught, from the internet. If you want to know more about how the current…

It's rhetoric, I presume nothing about your youth or your parents. Literally every generation has had that said about them so it's a pretty safe guess. You don't need a smartphone to engage in gambling or other addictive behaviors. If children are seeking out skinner boxes it might be worth exploring why they aren't getting fulfillment out of their life.

> If children are seeking out skinner boxes it might be worth exploring why they aren't getting fulfillment out of their life.

Possibility: they got hooked on skinner boxes before finding out about the other wonders life offers.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#392

Post by ImSkeptical »

DamnInteresting wrote: post #159
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

> I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. Hey smartphone makers, if you're listening: Let me set an alternate PIN that unlocks the phone in a limited access mode, or "kid mode." Only pre-approved apps are available. Only pre-approved contacts can be called/texted. In-game purchases require the more secure PIN. Maybe when the phone is in this mode I can track its location easily, and make it emit a noise.…

I'm fairly sure that feature already exists. On Amazon tablets (and phone) it's called Free Time or child profiles. I'm confident there's an Android equivalent. If not, on a rooted Android phone you could just run your own shell script which could periodically check running or installed apps, and close or uninstall undesirables.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#393

Post by ImSkeptical »

roganartu wrote: post #363
tonyarkles wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I particularly agree with this, but I've seen it enough to recognize it as a use case. You're at a restaurant with your kid, and they're bored because you're having adult conversations with your friends. You give them your phone and they play whatever game for a while, while you have no need for your phone because you're in a conversation. Or, alternatively, you're sitting around the house and they want to p…

K prisms You're at a restaurant with your kid, and they're bored because you're having adult conversations with your friends. Call me old fashioned, but my parents just used to make us sit there and be quiet. Bored? That's life, learn to deal with it. Both the parent and the child in your example are lacking discipline. The parent unable to tolerate a bored child and the child unable to tolerate boredom. This is a pa…

I think people have a tendency to find meaning in things they've done after the fact. In this way, waiting on a boring conversation becomes a lesson in the difficulties of life. This is the root of "character building" activities as well. Is it really better to be bored than not bored? Will my children and I both be better off if they are bored, and my conversation is constrained by increasingly agitated children?

I'd prefer my children have something to do. A book, a phone, an iPad or Switch. Why shouldn't they be entertained while I am? Actually, forcing them to sit quietly while I have fun seems like a weird message to me.

Granted, being bored is a part of life. Undoubtedly then, they'll encounter many boring experiences without the need for me to artificially create them. And, if I know I'll have to wait for someone or something, I bring a book or phone. Why would I deny them the same pleasure?

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#394

Post by jdietrich »

andrepd wrote: post #307
jdietrich wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a standard feature on Xiaomi phones. You can set up two user profiles, each with a different lock screen password. Each profile is effectively a different phone - different apps, different settings, even a different SIM card if you like. http://xiaomitips.com/guide/how-to-use-miui-8-second-space-f...

It's a standard feature in Android phones in general.

Really? Guest mode is a standard feature since Lollipop, but that just logs you into a completely blank account without any installed apps or user data. You can switch Google accounts, but that's a multi-tap process that can't be activated directly from the lock screen.

Second Space isn't unique in functionality, but it's exceptionally slick in execution.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#395

Post by twostoned »

arca_vorago wrote: post #358
agumonkey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? > Playing fucking candy crush. This is my go to rant for the last few years. Not the fact the people do play silly games, but the whole surrounding myth "computing era is paradise of heavens, highway of information to make your life better, only need an better octocore for you…

It cracks me up because that's what I used to say about solitaire. You mean you built a $4,000 computer and are now playing solitaire on it? The real problem is see is more about the ecosystem though. The user controlled their pc (to a certain extent), but the user has so little control over mobile devices that they get fed what advertisers and companies want them to see. It really feels like corporations and governm…

I agree with this. Mobile to me seems boring but I grew up in an age, and with a cohort, who was much more into messing about with computers and seeing what we could do with them.

Mobile seems so restricted and I'm always amazed by how effectively distracted by phones people generally are. The games and apps to me seem utterly boring in comparison to hacking about on some open source project, making games, or working on something. Computers are fun, and were always fun because you could do so many things. iOS seems like a bunch of lame apps and a web browser with a camera somehow wedged in there.

I'm friends with a Computer Engineer who just finished his undergrad and he doesn't have the hacker spirit at all. I doubt he even knows who Stallman is and considers some of the most basic config a huge hassle. I don't think this is necessarily a reflection of Engineers in general but I always wonder why he studied computers at all. He doesn't seem to enjoy them.

I remember when what.cd was taken down someone on reddit saying, perhaps hyperbolically (perhaps not) something like, "this has ruined the internet for me; it's no longer for fun. only work" or something along those lines. I always think of that comment and don't really disagree with it: as this technology ages and matures the things that made it fun or interesting in the first place to me seem to be slowly getting destroyed. All these little battles keep getting lost and as time progresses it's just kind of "meh..". Instead of wondering what we can do with computers maybe we're finding out?

Proverbs for Paranoids #3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers. --Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#396

Post by mythrwy »

WmyEE0UsWAwC2i wrote: post #124

Recommender Systems, trained to maximize revenue, are punishing kids for being curious. I'm specially refering to YouTube here. Take for example the "cell biology" subject. In a few videos ahead you'll start getting non-scientific videos, as "recommendations". Suffices to say that those videos speak about widely discredited life theories but with nicer stories. These recommendations exploit the human brain in ways th…

Yes, this is a big problem.

Was watching a (non-related) YouTube video the other day when a recommended video on Sumerian tablets popped up. Being a bit of an ancient history buff I clicked on it. Took like 5 minutes plus to determine it was a crackpot UFO aliens created Sumerian culture video. Because it looked convincing at first.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#398

Post by musage »

noobermin wrote: post #310
ivanhoe wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more complicated than that because distractions play a huge role. If you've got access to endless stream of entertainment and games you're obviously less likely to find time to explore the other stuff that you can do with computers. I know quite a lot of tech savvy and smart people who loved tinkering with computers but never really got to the point of being able to do anything professionally because they've got…

You're ignoring what they said. They're not you, so stop trying to force them to either become you or be better than you were. Just let your kids be kids and grow on their own.

And how does that apply to what it was replied to, namely this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16100002

If "but they're not you" (what they? there is no they in that comment) is such a great argument that it absolutely needs a response, "you're not the person you're talking to, stop trying to influence them, they're not you" is a sufficient one. Your own medicine, take it first.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#399

Post by csin »

DamnInteresting wrote: post #346
u801e wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let me set an alternate PIN that unlocks the phone in a limited access mode, or "kid mode." Only pre-approved apps are available. Come to think of it, there should also be a border mode when one is traveling.

I've advocated for that, as well as an ATM PIN to use if one is being forced to withdraw funds. It could alert police, mark the security camera footage to be saved, and show a very low account balance. Try as one might, the world doesn't seem to want to be better.

OK I'll bite. I think your solution only solves one edge case. And there are too many other edge cases to warrant spending the infrastructure to fix one edge case.

Examples, your solution doesn't solve:

- Mugger waits for you to withdraw the money from ATM.

- Mugger forces you to withdraw everything AFTER you entered your PIN.

- Muggers holding someone ransom until you get them their money.

- You are traveling outside of your home country/unreliable law enforcement.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#400

Post by intrasight »

I see kids (my own and others) using computers in two different ways. Some spend the majority of their time as "consumers". Some spend the majority as "producers". Ad-driven monetization favors consumption, and we see many more hit social apps that are great for consuming but terrible at producing. But there is a whole genre of producer apps out there. My daughter, when she was young, spent hour with Scratch. Scratch is amazing! In high school she spend hours with Sketchup. Even the sim games are good in that you must think ahead and problem solve. There are far too few programs like that. Smartphones are inherently week for content creation. Tablets are better. Desktops are still best. You need space to draw or paint or program.

My personal hope is that 5" screens are a passing fad. We've only had them for a few years, and I am hopeful that we'll only have them for a few more. Then we switch to AR. And again we'll have big screens, and developers will hopefully be inspired to create programs that support creation and exploration and discovery.

So don't blame "digital". Blame the narrow interface channel and the easy money of ad-driven social media. I am of the opinion that those types of apps will not hold the attention of users once we have high-fidelity interfaces. We will be able to blame developers (ourselves) if the programs we create and use aren't up to the potential. How about a virtual wood-working shop? How about space-filling virtual instruments? How about apps to crowd-solve some tough societal problems?

My smartphone is much more engaging than was the TV I grew up with (three channels and bad commercials). I think there will be great creator-geared apps in the future, and great user-created content. We do have to make sure that creators of virtual art and goods can profit from their work. Do that, and people will be eager to fill the vacuum of cyberspace.

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