The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds • Hacker News Board

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#361

Post by djsumdog » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 11:54 PM UTC

ictoan wrote: post #97

rflrob wrote: post #44

I'm always a little skeptical of arguments that new technologies are actually damaging . I'm willing to accept that people are sometimes unhappy adjusting to new things (and that people are unhappy with how other people use their new technology), but people have been saying that [new technology here] is bad for thousands of years—Plato even complained about writing because it's "bad for memory"[1]. If you frame the q…

If you read the article, it did mention Socrates warned about writing. Maybe Plato did say it as well. Anyways, your point was brought up in the article. Did you read the article?

I read that part and saw how they stated it and then totally dismissed it. "This time is different" and lets keep going on with our talking points with studies that we spin/abuse and other things which aren't backed up at all.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#362

Post by rflrob » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 11:55 PM UTC

ictoan wrote: post #97

rflrob wrote: post #44

I'm always a little skeptical of arguments that new technologies are actually damaging . I'm willing to accept that people are sometimes unhappy adjusting to new things (and that people are unhappy with how other people use their new technology), but people have been saying that [new technology here] is bad for thousands of years—Plato even complained about writing because it's "bad for memory"[1]. If you frame the q…

If you read the article, it did mention Socrates warned about writing. Maybe Plato did say it as well. Anyways, your point was brought up in the article. Did you read the article?

> Did you read the article?

I did not. :( Turns out that not only Plato is too curmudgeonly to read things. Perhaps if I had a longer attention span from not using my cell phone too much, I could have read it.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#363

Post by roganartu » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 11:57 PM UTC

tonyarkles wrote: post #341

TheCoreh wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you _share_ a phone with your kids? Isn't the whole point of giving your kids a phone being able to call them or have them call you when an emergency arises?

Not that I particularly agree with this, but I've seen it enough to recognize it as a use case. You're at a restaurant with your kid, and they're bored because you're having adult conversations with your friends. You give them your phone and they play whatever game for a while, while you have no need for your phone because you're in a conversation. Or, alternatively, you're sitting around the house and they want to p…

K prisms You're at a restaurant with your kid, and they're bored because you're having adult conversations with your friends.

Call me old fashioned, but my parents just used to make us sit there and be quiet. Bored? That's life, learn to deal with it.

Both the parent and the child in your example are lacking discipline. The parent unable to tolerate a bored child and the child unable to tolerate boredom. This is a pattern I have personally noticed as early as babies being pushed around in prams with a smartphone or tablet in hand. A two year old definitely doesn't need a phone to relieve boredom but it's easy.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#364

Post by duderific » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 12:01 AM UTC

gthtjtkt wrote: post #101

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

> I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. I am terrified by the fact that so many other people don't think twice about handing their toddler a smart device. Every time we go to dinner, there's a table nearby with a tablet planted in front of a child in a booster seat. "There's no evidence that it's harmful", people say, but how could the evidence possibly exist? It would take 16+ years to do a thorough st…

> Every time we go to dinner, there's a table nearby with a tablet planted in front of a child in a booster seat.

I'm guessing you're not a parent. As the parent of a 3-year-old boy, I'd like to weigh in on this. There are three kinds of parents out there:

1) Those that simply hand their kid a phone/tablet every time they're out and about. This is probably bad.

2) Those that never let their kid use a device at a restaurant. This is pretty rare.

3) Those that use the device in times of true need: their kid has been at the dinner table for a long time and needs some distraction so the parents can get through their meal. This is where I fall, and I think it's ok. Most three year olds are not built to sit quietly and eat a meal at a restaurant. I guess maybe back in the day, people would simply leave their kid with a sitter and go out to eat, but that's not always an option.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#365

Post by aoeusnth1 » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 12:04 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #65

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference between computer-based distractions (video games, smartphones) and those previous (television, newspapers, etc) is that the former is interactive, which leads one to feel as if they are doing something. Getting to the next level in a game or posting a comment or status that gets lots of likes and replies feels like work and reward, whereas one-way consumption doesn’t offer the same subconscious…

Engagement is a trap, it fools us into thinking we're doing something. Instead of evaluating what I'm doing in terms of vegetating vs. engagement, I find it helps to classify my activity into consuming vs. producing. Am I actually making or creating something, or am I passively consuming? - Netflix: Consumption - Video Game: Consumption - Facebook: Consumption - Web Browsing: Consumption (I give up, how do you make a…

(You can make a list with an extra new line between each bullet)

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#366

Post by yomly » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 12:05 AM UTC

candu wrote: post #89

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

There’s a tendency to accept without question, in these sorts of conversations, that “trivial entertainment” is bad, or at least qualifiably inferior to either “good entertainment” (less Skinner-box-ish games, going outside, socializing, etc.) or “self-improvement” (reading, thinking, practicing, etc.) IMHO, most of us in fact choose all of the above; what we should be aiming for is the proper balance, not to replace…

I can't fault anything you've said, but my problem is that just through your diction it is already clear to me that you are an outlier in the grand scheme of media-consumers.

Having broached this subject with various people, it is clear to me that most people are oblivious to the nature of 21st-Century media creation. A vast swathe of it is cynically designed to maximise engagement - the Orwellian term for something being addictive.

Open any successful mobile microtransaction driven game and it will be clear that it has taken very obvious cues from the casino industry. To most people, it is completely reasonable that government should educate people about the risks of gambling, regulate the industry heavily and restrict underage people from access. Pose the idea to people who are not tech-savvy whether similar restrictions should apply to mobile games and they'll look at you like you're insane.

It's a ridiculous example, but if we were to start adding heroin to foods or soft-drinks because they make us feel good or because they make our businesses profitable, you could bet your ass populations would be up in arms about the issue. Yet dark patterns and psychological traps in app-design don't incite the same degree of outrage: there is a lack of awareness on the issue, and businesses are keen to exploit it.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#367

Post by yomly » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 12:08 AM UTC

AFNobody wrote: post #121

cpsempek wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a human need for mental and physical downtime, as well as for the sort of quick gratification that we rarely get from loftier or more productive pursuits Could this not be said about drugs and alcohol? And while it may indeed be beneficial to use drugs and alcohol in a balanced, well moderated way, the downside risk seems to great to me to be suggesting this to a society.

> Could this not be said about drugs and alcohol? And while it may indeed be beneficial to use drugs and alcohol in a balanced, well moderated way, the downside risk seems to great to me to be suggesting this to a society. Over half of fatalities in cars have nothing to do with DUI-type impairment. Would you ban those as well? But lets say you ban alcohol and re-create the problems of the Prohibition. Banning the way…

It is reasonable for you to find the link between videogame (or content) addiction and chemical addiction more tenuous.

I would be curious to know what your thoughts on gambling are? Irrespective of any solution, do you feel that leaving the gambling industry unrestrained would not be damaging for society?

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#368

Post by e40 » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 12:22 AM UTC

powrtoch wrote: post #170

An article about a "growing body of evidence" that fails to link to a single study. Great. "Smartphone use takes about the same cognitive toll as losing a full night's sleep" Would love to see this study, since it sounds completely implausible (but really important if true). Without looking at the research, the only reasonable course of action is to assume it's false.

The site linked to is one of the worst places on the internet for actual news/facts. I won't take this seriously until someone provides links to a reputable site.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#369

Post by brlewis » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 12:32 AM UTC

rising-sky wrote: post #289

"Matt Mayberry, who works at a California startup called Dopamine Labs, says it's common knowledge in the industry that Instagram exploits this craving by strategically withholding "likes" from certain users. If the photo-sharing app decides you need to use the service more often, it'll show only a fraction of the likes you've received on a given post at first, hoping you'll be disappointed with your haul and check b…

Is it true? Purposefully showing inaccurate information seems unethical to me.

Re: The growing body of evidence that digital distraction is damaging our minds

#370

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 12:35 AM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #129

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #4

I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids. France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that. What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people? Playing fucking candy crush. We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not. So what can we do about it? I have no idea…

My wife and I are going to have a son in a couple weeks. We literally were discussing today. We came to the conclusion we don't want them to have a cell phone until they are fairly old. We plan on actually installing a landline instead. We subscribe to the theory that, to some extent, we need to struggle to grow. So, I've actually convinced her to pretty much let our son (and additional children) get free access to a…

You should be prepared for the possiblilty that your son will have no interest in Linux or figuring out how computers work. Kids are not always interested in the same things their parents are, and it can be a hard lesson to learn (ask me how I know).