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Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

pnas.org

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Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#61

Post by cookiecaper »

MollyR wrote: post #3

It would be mind boggling if pain killers were connected to dropping male fertility. It might even explain why so many cultures had rites to male adulthood involving extreme pain.

Where can I read about "dropping male fertility" as a medical thing? Just taking a blind guess, as someone who doesn't follow the medical field, I would suggest that increases in "infertility" are much more likely to be caused by the older age at which people are becoming interested in "fertilization" than environmental factors causing biological malfunctions. In other words, it's not that reproductive systems are breaking faster, it's just that people aren't using them until they're worse for wear.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#62

Post by guelo »

elchief wrote: post #16
fencepost wrote: post #13

Okay, so ibuprofen impacts testicular function, acetaminophen/paracetamol causes muting of emotional response (along with the liver toxicity), many other painkillers are related to ibuprofen, and opiates are Right Out. Is aspirin at least reasonably safe as long as the blood thinning isn't a problem?

some people can't handle the effect on the stomach. but if you can handle it, it's a good choice. Or marijuana

Marijuana kills your short term memory.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#63

Post by sliverstorm »

keithpeter wrote: post #32
Alex3917 wrote: post #15

At 1200mg/d, I feel like destroying your reproductive system would be the least of your concerns.

That is actually the dose I use for my lower back pain and inflammation when it flares up - for a couple of days perhaps once or twice a year. Dates from a slipped disc about 20 years ago. Never serious enough for surgery, but still unpleasant.

Have you tried dropping the dose and interleaving with acetomenophin? I have been hearing recently that's an increasingly popular strategy, sharing the load between the kidneys and liver.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#64

Post by bhc3 »

diryawish wrote: post #6

How sufficient is a sample size of 31 healthy white men?

A metric that may be useful: fragility index. How many positive results would need to be reversed to have the p-value exceed 0.05? Seems applicable for low-powered studies such as this one.

Details: https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/fragility-index-ninds/

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#65

Post by cookiecaper »

gknoy wrote: post #59
cookiecaper wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have to say "Common drug X has negative side effects after sustained daily exposure to high dosages" is hardly surprising. The study says participants were given 1200mg per day for six weeks. For reference, a typical ibuprofen capsule in the US is 200mg. I'm sure this result is useful for the medical community or men specifically dealing with hypogonadism, but it doesn't seem to have a great deal of relevance…

> 1200mg per day for six weeks. For reference, a typical ibuprofen capsule in the US is 200mg. Most people take 1-2 capsules (400mg), and the dosage documentation says no more than 8 per day (1600mg). The study seems to demonstrate people using the drug well within its over-the-counter maximum dosage. (When I tore up my knee as a teenager, my doctor prescribed it at about double that rate.)

If your doctor gives an Rx, they acknowledge that they're making a tradeoff and that it's the most applicable one for your overall health. I'm sure studies like this are helpful information for making such decisions, but this definitely doesn't seem to mean "taking ibuprofen will make you infertile".

For what it's worth, I've also been Rx'd large ibuprofen dosages for a period of weeks at various times, and I've had six mostly-non-defective kids so far. I don't think this study warrants any type of generalized panic...

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#66

Post by function_seven »

3pt14159 wrote: post #30
diryawish wrote: post #6

How sufficient is a sample size of 31 healthy white men?

It isn't. People talking about P values forget about p-hacking and selection bias. Any scientific study with less than 200 participants should be discarded and the failure to routinely do so has more to do with scientific laziness and the pro-profit incentive most journals have than anything else.

> Any scientific study with less than 200 participants should be discarded ...

Imagine you're investigating a drug for hair loss. You gather a group of 31 bald white men. 15 of them take a placebo and 16 take the experimental drug for 24 weeks. If, after 24 weeks, you find 1 of 15 controls with a full head of hair, and 14 of 16 test subjects with a full head of hair, is 31 too small a sample size?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#67

Post by [deleted] »

elchief wrote: post #16
fencepost wrote: post #13

Okay, so ibuprofen impacts testicular function, acetaminophen/paracetamol causes muting of emotional response (along with the liver toxicity), many other painkillers are related to ibuprofen, and opiates are Right Out. Is aspirin at least reasonably safe as long as the blood thinning isn't a problem?

some people can't handle the effect on the stomach. but if you can handle it, it's a good choice. Or marijuana

[deleted]

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#68

Post by WilliamSt »

mlloyd wrote: post #54

I've taken entirely too much Ibuprofen - I've had a lot of babies. Since the sample size of this study is 31 people, I say that my one case is significant and this study is bunk. That's why you can't rely on a study of 31 people.

Of course. I'd much rather trust the anecdotes of a stranger on the internet

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology

#70

Post by antisthenes »

joezydeco wrote: post #37
fencepost wrote: post #13

Okay, so ibuprofen impacts testicular function, acetaminophen/paracetamol causes muting of emotional response (along with the liver toxicity), many other painkillers are related to ibuprofen, and opiates are Right Out. Is aspirin at least reasonably safe as long as the blood thinning isn't a problem?

Can't use aspirin in children and teenagers because of the risk of Reye's Syndrome. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/reyes-syndrom...

1000 cases in the US, which means you're about 30x more likely to die in a car accident in any given year. Also, the syndrome isn't immediately lethal.

When people worry about infinitesimally small risks, it always makes me chuckle.

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