Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#211

Post by 659087 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

thomastjeffery wrote: post #89

quickthrower2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with doing all of these studies? Aren't you glad we know about the harmful effects of tobacco smoke, UV light, radiation, too much sugar etc.?

If using a computer is addictive, what is the response? I am concerned with any action that takes a child's privacy or liberty from them. I haven't heard a proposed solution that does neither, and most do both. Someone with the absolute best intentions it's likely to take seriously harmful actions when privacy and liberty are disrespected.

> I am concerned with any action that takes a child's privacy or liberty from them.

Such as signing them up for a Facebook account, or having their schools force them to use Google hardware and services that track everything they do?

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#212

Post by jokoon » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

If the market of iPhone users are older, I think that this study will impact apple much less than android.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#213

Post by kale » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:20 PM UTC

thomastjeffery wrote: post #82

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting device usage electronically or physically is a far cry away from snooping on your kids’ browsing or messaging histories. As far as intrusions go, this is a level 0. As a kid, we were limited by technology, so no limits were needed (SMB just wasn’t that replayable, and the TI/99 was even worse). Perhaps the solution to creativity here is to simply give your kids older computers to play with.

If my parents had limited my amount of time spent using a computer or paying video games, I would never have gone down the path that led me to here. I have extended family who have done this, and the difference is palpable.

My daughter has an Android tablet. For a while it was vanilla Android until I realized she was downloading an app, tapping the initial ad on the app, which lead to another app. Repeat ad nauseam until she couldn't install anything else. She isn't able to distinguish quality of apps, and was installing apps that were one giant copyright violation (My little Ponies, Mickey Mouse, and a Minion, all in the same app!).

For the life of me I can't figure out how these apps make money. They're like flotsam in the Google App store, so they're making money somehow. For all I know they turn on the microphone and send the data to a rogue organization.

This is very different to when I grew up. I had to write my games in Basic (I got them in the back of a catalog!) and I learned how to modify them. I plan on giving her free use of any of my Raspberry Pis, Arduinos, and if she shows interest in those big, expensive RGB LED matrices, I'll buy those for her. She can go nuts with those!

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#214

Post by BoorishBears » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #138

thomastjeffery wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my parents had limited my amount of time spent using a computer or paying video games, I would never have gone down the path that led me to here. I have extended family who have done this, and the difference is palpable.

I mean....I work as a professional C++ programmer in the games industry, and until I was about 12-14, my computer time was limited to 1 hour a day during the week days, 2 hours a day during the weekend. But then I would spend all my other free time reading, and I would read programming books and game guides instead. I have "experienced" many games by reading their game guides from start to finish, without having actu…

I mean, I represent the opposite story.

My parents didn't really support my computer endeavors (which distracted from my academics), but on the laptops and PCs I scrounged my computer time was unlimited. Again, not without a great gnashing of teeth and frequent complaints from my parents, but kids will find a way... I recall hours and hours programming graphing calculators (and teachers seizing my calculator for programming in classes not related to math [and even some related])

I learned by spending inordinate amounts of time trying, throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, from Assembly to Game Maker-like programs to C via SDCC for my little graphing calculator. There was little preparation and very few books, and just insane amounts of time on computers.

I had "imposter syndrome" while I was learning, so I always spent time trying to do things "how the professionals" did. I remember trying TDD while I was still in early high school and worshipping XML with nicely made schemas and codegen for my RPC libraries because I thought that's what "real programmers" did. All the time spent doing things like that shaped my ability to pick and choose what "works" and what doesn't in so many other applications today

And as a result today I'm a professional developer who never went to college.

But maybe I wouldn't be doing what I do today if it was any different - if my computer access wasn't unlimited and "common" - because it was so unrestricted I spent an inordinate amount of time programming, which obviously had effects on my entire career later on ;)

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#215

Post by astura » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #163

Tempest1981 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree about tablets vs. TV -- except it's easy to find some terrible content on YouTube very quickly. Don't underestimate how impressionable kids are--even teens--by some cool YouTube stars who set bad examples.

Which begs the question: If the interactions with the tablet boil down to just passively consuming content, like on YouTube, are they really that different to TVs? As enjoyable as YouTube and similar streaming services are, they are pretty much still TVs, just with millions upon millions of different channels to chose from.

I think TV is higher quality than what kids watch on YouTube. I know, there's plenty of trash on TV but at least there isn't "Elsagate-type content," surprise egg openings, toy reviews, and other generally "unsettling/shocking/scary" content.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#216

Post by Jonovono » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

Tempest1981 wrote: post #143

I wish iOS had a way to limit time by app. Or even just a daily limit. Is there any way to do this today? Or just show # of minutes by app, each day -- to observe where time is being spent... even for adults!

https://freedom.to/ is the best/only one I have found. It's meh but it works.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#217

Post by PascLeRasc » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #189

fsloth wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"games with educational value" Unfortunately that's a near non-sequitur. For example a "math game" may actually be a crappy button smashing experience that's made to look "educational" in the store. Etc.

You know what's worse than what you describe? Educational games, i.e. schoolwork disguised (usually poorly) as a video game. No one is getting fooled by that. As for good games with educational value, I'd point to obvious examples like Kerbal Space Program (makes 12 years old learn the math behind rocketry and orbital dynamics), Minecraft (can make kids learn to program), Zachtronics games like SpaceChem or Shenzhen…

I'd put Civ5 and Portal into the "accidentally educational" category too. Funnily enough you could give your kids Ubuntu and they could play all these games and learn a little about Linux too.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#218

Post by astura » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:45 PM UTC

rock_hard wrote: post #191

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I agree that I rather hand my kids a tablet or smartphone then putting them in front of a TV or game console. Is an actual computer not an option?

That depends on age...handing a 4 year old a laptop is probably not feasible

They make desktop computers, they make rugged laptops, or you can just teach your kid not to manhandle a normal laptop.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#219

Post by astura » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:46 PM UTC

shados wrote: post #192

astura wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big difference. VCRs aren't portable. Tablets allow a kid watching a low quality YouTube video at full volume while eating at a restaurant(!) - I've seen this multiple times. You can't pull a VCR out of your pocket mid conversation.

at a restaurant, in a plane, in the train... it's so freagin annoying. The implied social contract that you use such devices with headphones go out of the way the moment there's "omg a kid so cute" involved. Kill me.

And you know you can't ask them politely to turn off the sound, the kind of parent that allows their kid to do that won't take kindly to such requests because Jonny is special and he just NEEDS to watch YouTube right now.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#220

Post by pbkhrv » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

My toddler is allowed about a half hour of cartoons on Youtube on the big TV per day. He's played with the iPad a few times in his life. Lots of books and Legos and physical toys in our house. Waiting for longitudinal studies to come out, not taking chances with the little brain.