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Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#181

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

sparewalking wrote: post #150
andrei_says_ wrote: post #6

I think this is a very good sign. It is my hope that Apple is able to pioneer tools which make it possible to interrupt addiction forming (dark) patterns. Addressing this on the device/os level (vs possibly legislation) could be very effective. Right now this is a lawless territory and creating + exploiting addiction at the cost of depleting millions of people’s cognitive resources as free is very profitable. The lon…

The real result will be that kids will be educated by devices instead being educated by their parents.

> educated by devices

Are you familiar with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmakon_(philosophy)?

This concept – and Bernard Stiegler's work in general – could really help developers and hackers understand how technology actually affects people.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#182

Post by artur_makly »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #143

I wish iOS had a way to limit time by app. Or even just a daily limit. Is there any way to do this today? Or just show # of minutes by app, each day -- to observe where time is being spent... even for adults!

hopefully this year Rescue Time will solve this.

this one seems very good: Moment – Screen Time Tracker by Kevin Holesh

there are a few apps listed here: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-parental-control-apps,revi...

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#183

Post by zolthrowaway »

rock_hard wrote: post #107
tyingq wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that heavy use vs light use drives when they buy a new phone.

It most certainly does...it does for most if not all kind of products. One example I have at hand is for mobile apps...not the best one in this context but here we go: Most users forget about a app if they haven’t used it in 7 days! It’s not like they forget to use it, or forget they had it...they forget that it exits!

I'm not sure that phones fit into this paradigm very well. First, having a phone is almost a necessity. Note that I did not say smartphone, but having a device that receives calls and texts is something that nearly every functioning adult will have.

Secondly, many people treat their phone more as a lease than an outright purchase. Carriers provide a ton of options to upgrade your phone regularly that could easily cause low-use users to habitually upgrade every 2 years or so.

Lastly, Apple phones in particular seem to be seen as a luxury. Luxury sales aren't necessarily tied to frequency of use. For example, I have a set of name brand golf clubs that I touch maybe 5 times a summer.

I am definitely not saying that you are wrong, but there are a lot of compounding factors to this. Phones are a fairly unique market.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#184

Post by TeMPOraL »

watwut wrote: post #148
icebraining wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the one forcing them to stop, does that really teach them to stop on their own?

Yes overtime it does. First step is to get used to stop without major temper tamtrum. And clear rules set in advance work much better then seemingly random attempts to remove device when parent feel like it. They get used to stop playing, they are forced not to treat game as number one priority in life and because they find other things to do with time. And maybe also because they cease to feel entitled to tablet all…

> They get used to stop playing, they are forced not to treat game as number one priority in life and because they find other things to do with time.

Basically, they're forced to learn to never immerse themselves in any activity. I'm not sure it's a good thing to ask for.

At least the clear and predictable rules you describe help some. The kid will know in advance not to immerse themselves, because there isn't enough time. Beats the hell getting into an activity, and then being suddenly dragged out of it.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#185

Post by TeMPOraL »

icebraining wrote: post #137
mistercow wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids have other ways of obtaining games than their parents buying them. And most kids have more than one parent. And that one example prevents you from understanding my entire comment?

With parental controls, kids do not have other ways of obtaining games, unless it's something like a browser game, and then it won't be recorded either. So your comment seems to be based on an impossible premise.

The point is valid though in general, even if not in a specific case of a non-rooted iPad.

Imagine a similar parental control solution employed on an Android tablet, or a Windows PC. Your kid will learn how to sideload games from friends at school. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#186

Post by TeMPOraL »

sirclueless wrote: post #165
b-zee wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate? I fail to see the connection.

I suppose it's a sort of shallow reference to keeping a child locked up in a tower away from the world. Not sure it's a great comparison since the woman raising Rapunzel disowns her when she discovers she's been sleeping with a prince, and blinds him. But they find each other by her voice, her tears heal his eyes, and he takes her back to his kingdom. So I guess the moral is if you keep your innocent child locked awa…

> So I guess the moral is if you keep your innocent child locked away from the world the only people who will make an effort to find them are gallant princes.

The moral sounds to me more like: if you keep your innocent child locked away from the world, you might just create a cure for blindness.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#187

Post by le-mark »

pmarreck wrote: post #176
gpmcadam wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for smartphone usage having any impact on neck or muscle strain, versus non-smartphone usage, and why it would disproportionately affect millennials?

Why is this guy getting downvoted simply for asking for evidence? This is Hacker News. Raise the bar, people. Leave the baseless assertions and hearsay to Reddit. I expect citations in discussions here. In fact I just scrolled through this entire discussion and did not find A SINGLE LINK to outside evidence/data. How do you expect to debate anything with any validity, based on nothing but bullshit?

I didn't down vote, but I took the gp to be an expression of opinion rather than a statement of fact, and neck pain from phone use being something I can relate to. Merely asking for sources can be distracting when discussing opinions.

I think a more cogent response would be "How is smart phone use different than reading a paper or having ones nose buried in a book?" which of course isn't new, but the same physical movement.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#188

Post by seanmcdirmid »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #184
watwut wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes overtime it does. First step is to get used to stop without major temper tamtrum. And clear rules set in advance work much better then seemingly random attempts to remove device when parent feel like it. They get used to stop playing, they are forced not to treat game as number one priority in life and because they find other things to do with time. And maybe also because they cease to feel entitled to tablet all…

> They get used to stop playing, they are forced not to treat game as number one priority in life and because they find other things to do with time. Basically, they're forced to learn to never immerse themselves in any activity. I'm not sure it's a good thing to ask for. At least the clear and predictable rules you describe help some. The kid will know in advance not to immerse themselves, because there isn't enough…

The alternative is horrifying if you have kids. Tablets are addictive even to adults. Plus their eyes, if they are under 7 or 8, aren’t really ready for it. Let them go all out on legos instead.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#189

Post by TeMPOraL »

fsloth wrote: post #142
tlrobinson wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have kids so I haven't looked into it, but I assumed there would be more games with educational value on iOS than Nintendo. Is curating your kid's apps to only allow such games an option?

"games with educational value" Unfortunately that's a near non-sequitur. For example a "math game" may actually be a crappy button smashing experience that's made to look "educational" in the store. Etc.

You know what's worse than what you describe? Educational games, i.e. schoolwork disguised (usually poorly) as a video game. No one is getting fooled by that.

As for good games with educational value, I'd point to obvious examples like Kerbal Space Program (makes 12 years old learn the math behind rocketry and orbital dynamics), Minecraft (can make kids learn to program), Zachtronics games like SpaceChem or Shenzhen I/O, and ultimately any narrative-heavy game as a good way for kids from non-English-speaking countries to learn English.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#190

Post by enraged_camel »

sparewalking wrote: post #150
andrei_says_ wrote: post #6

I think this is a very good sign. It is my hope that Apple is able to pioneer tools which make it possible to interrupt addiction forming (dark) patterns. Addressing this on the device/os level (vs possibly legislation) could be very effective. Right now this is a lawless territory and creating + exploiting addiction at the cost of depleting millions of people’s cognitive resources as free is very profitable. The lon…

The real result will be that kids will be educated by devices instead being educated by their parents.

Sounds like a false dichotomy.
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