Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#141

Post by Tempest1981 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

rock_hard wrote: post #92

krisives wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years ago it was called "VCR parenting" now we call it "tablet parenting" - People live hard and complex lives, so I'm not going to make judgment on a single parent trying to provide for their kids being unable to be a full-time entertainer as well. The good news is technology and apps are making it easier for parents to be better with less effort (which may sound harsh but is how life gets better overall)

I agree that I rather hand my kids a tablet or smartphone then putting them in front of a TV or game console. What I sometimes miss from the conversation is that there is a lot of good things one can do with such device...and yes, also some bad ones...just like with a scissors or a lighter. It’s on parents to teach their kids how the world functions and how to integrate into it...always has, always will! And the late…

I generally agree about tablets vs. TV -- except it's easy to find some terrible content on YouTube very quickly. Don't underestimate how impressionable kids are--even teens--by some cool YouTube stars who set bad examples.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#142

Post by fsloth » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:32 AM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #79

brightball wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the biggest difference is the style of games. Switch games are much more comprehensive like Zelda. iPad games are geared towards button mashing and showing ads for other games that do the exact same thing. A switch game will be $30-60. An iPad game will be “free”. Subjecting your kids to advertising driven games which aim to have them play much as possible to drive revenues is noticeably different. I’ve taken awa…

I don't have kids so I haven't looked into it, but I assumed there would be more games with educational value on iOS than Nintendo. Is curating your kid's apps to only allow such games an option?

"games with educational value"

Unfortunately that's a near non-sequitur. For example a "math game" may actually be a crappy button smashing experience that's made to look "educational" in the store. Etc.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#143

Post by Tempest1981 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:41 AM UTC

I wish iOS had a way to limit time by app. Or even just a daily limit. Is there any way to do this today?

Or just show # of minutes by app, each day -- to observe where time is being spent... even for adults!

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#144

Post by gpmcadam » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:42 AM UTC

krisives wrote: post #120

trothamel wrote: post #106

For the record, these shareholders seem to control about 0.2% of apple stock.

Also consider that most big players in the game have very little incentive to reduce screen-time in a meaningful way. The more time spent on devices consuming media the more they sell from their App store.

While even the biggest cynic in me believes that there's a lot of truth in this, there's also something to be said about overall customer satisfaction, leading to better sales.

Don't forget that for any device that a child owns, the likelihood is the parent is the customer, and it's their repeat purchases that probably make the biggest difference.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#145

Post by gpmcadam » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:44 AM UTC

hilyen wrote: post #73

They should be pushing for a study on neck injury / muscle strain on smart phone use. Millennials and the next gen after are going to pay dearly from injuries from bending their necks/heads down for years and years looking at their phones.

Do you have a source for smartphone usage having any impact on neck or muscle strain, versus non-smartphone usage, and why it would disproportionately affect millennials?

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#146

Post by jakobegger » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #75

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #29

I think it's worth taking a look at the parental controls that Nintendo put in for the Switch. They have a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bAayBtcb0 I think it's worth watching, if for no other reason than to see Bowser & Bowser Jr.. iOS app link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id1190074407 Play store link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nintendo.z... For me, the only annoyance is th…

IMO the biggest difference is the style of games. Switch games are much more comprehensive like Zelda. iPad games are geared towards button mashing and showing ads for other games that do the exact same thing. A switch game will be $30-60. An iPad game will be “free”. Subjecting your kids to advertising driven games which aim to have them play much as possible to drive revenues is noticeably different. I’ve taken awa…

Just because free ad-driven games are unsuited for kids, doesn‘t mean the iPad as a whole is unsuitable for kids.

Watching my kids (4 & 5) play monument valley is a joy. The game costs 5€ and is absolutely worth it.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#147

Post by jakobegger » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:58 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #125

thomastjeffery wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my parents had limited my amount of time spent using a computer or paying video games, I would never have gone down the path that led me to here. I have extended family who have done this, and the difference is palpable.

Many kids act very badly when allowed unlimited play. Aggressive, acts very annoying whenever does not have tablet, refuses to put it down even for homework or any kind of familly activity. Putting predictable enforced limits goes long way to stop that. It just works and still allows them game time. People tend to relax those rules as kids grow and problems disappear. I knew multiple people who had trouble later in s…

Plus one on this. Telling kids beforehand how long they can play helps a lot.

My kids get aggressive only if I walk in the room, realise they have been watching videos for far too long, and try to take it away. Kind of understandable, if you imagine from their perspective.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#148

Post by watwut » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 9:59 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #136

watwut wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many kids act very badly when allowed unlimited play. Aggressive, acts very annoying whenever does not have tablet, refuses to put it down even for homework or any kind of familly activity. Putting predictable enforced limits goes long way to stop that. It just works and still allows them game time. People tend to relax those rules as kids grow and problems disappear. I knew multiple people who had trouble later in s…

If you're the one forcing them to stop, does that really teach them to stop on their own?

Yes overtime it does. First step is to get used to stop without major temper tamtrum. And clear rules set in advance work much better then seemingly random attempts to remove device when parent feel like it.

They get used to stop playing, they are forced not to treat game as number one priority in life and because they find other things to do with time. And maybe also because they cease to feel entitled to tablet all the time.

It prevents them into getting into habit. And makes it harder to join social groups where your game score is you social standing (thus feeding addiction via social pressure).

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#149

Post by sah2ed » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #137

mistercow wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids have other ways of obtaining games than their parents buying them. And most kids have more than one parent. And that one example prevents you from understanding my entire comment?

With parental controls, kids do not have other ways of obtaining games, unless it's something like a browser game, and then it won't be recorded either. So your comment seems to be based on an impossible premise.

> With parental controls, kids do not have other ways of obtaining games ...

Still possible outside the home or at school. Borrowing a device from the next door neighbor who could care less about parental controls is one way for kids who are intent on playing a game their peers are raving about.

Then there is the option of using an older (teenage) sibling's device for the same purpose if left lying around in the house.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#150

Post by sparewalking » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 10:10 AM UTC

andrei_says_ wrote: post #6

I think this is a very good sign. It is my hope that Apple is able to pioneer tools which make it possible to interrupt addiction forming (dark) patterns. Addressing this on the device/os level (vs possibly legislation) could be very effective. Right now this is a lawless territory and creating + exploiting addiction at the cost of depleting millions of people’s cognitive resources as free is very profitable. The lon…

The real result will be that kids will be educated by devices instead being educated by their parents.