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The Struggling Artist at 86

nytimes.com

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Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#61

Post by rileymat2 »

brudgers wrote: post #60
rileymat2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you're not going to get ten years of 7% net growth without extraordinary good luck. Typically, I would agree, however in the cited time period I would not. From the middle of 2009 to now the DJI is up 180%. Significantly more than the 7%. From Peak 2007, that money is up 90% since 2007. By simply holding and not selling broad index funds, you would have been fine.

Unlike real portfolios, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gets to replace losers with winners. Dropped by the DJI since 2008 are: + Alitra, Honeywell for BOA and Chevron: Remember Honeywell? + AIG for Kraft Foods: AIG was worth close to $0 and Kraft was worth something and so the DJI went up because averaging in something is better than averaging in nothing. + Citigroup, GM for Cisco and Travelers: GM was at about $10…

I am not claiming the Dow is a ideal index I used it for its name brand, however Here is a link to a comparison to .DJI and VTI (Vanguard Total Stock Market)

https://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chd...

You will notice a negligible difference, all of my points stand.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#62

Post by brudgers »

rileymat2 wrote: post #61
brudgers wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike real portfolios, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gets to replace losers with winners. Dropped by the DJI since 2008 are: + Alitra, Honeywell for BOA and Chevron: Remember Honeywell? + AIG for Kraft Foods: AIG was worth close to $0 and Kraft was worth something and so the DJI went up because averaging in something is better than averaging in nothing. + Citigroup, GM for Cisco and Travelers: GM was at about $10…

I am not claiming the Dow is a ideal index I used it for its name brand, however Here is a link to a comparison to .DJI and VTI (Vanguard Total Stock Market) https://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chd... You will notice a negligible difference, all of my points stand.

Here's the 10year https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=I...

If a person had bought into it in 2007, they would have done reasonably well...a little worse than 7% per year compounded. All that a person needed was an oracle to pick a winner. On the other hand, the ten year from 1999 to 2009 would not have looked so good and it's not providing DJI like increases in value because the DJI is Public Relations not finance (that's why it doesn't indicate when to make money as a bear).

Keep in mind that in terms of retirement, pensions looked good and in 1992 when the Vangard fund became available the artist was already sixty-two years old. There's no guarantee that today's Vanguard Fund will look as attractive in twenty, thirty or forty years when the people following conventional retirement advice have to cash in their chips. The fund performed better than average.

Finally, people lost their jobs in the downturn and often had to dip into retirement savings to keep themselves afloat. Even with a time machine, it isn't possible for many people to have timed the market perfectly by investing heavily at the 2009 trough. That's the smoke and hand waving that the conventional financial advice uses to dismiss actual individual circumstances...well that and the idea that poverty reflects a lack of virtue.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#63

Post by tgamba »

megaman22 wrote: post #9
claudiulodro wrote: post #7

> “Harry’s never been a salesman,” said Mary Bertschmann, his wife of more than 50 years. “He didn’t get his art out there for them to see.” Like pretty much everything in life, it all comes back to marketing. In order for people to want a specific artist's art they have to know the artist exists and they have to be familiar with his work. The more people that know, the more people will want the art, and the more val…

God, Rothkos... nobody has ever been able to explain why I should care about him or his fuzzy rectangles. And I was engaged to an artist that loved him...

I'll let Sister Wendy do the talking here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3sPATJc7rM

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#64

Post by galfarragem »

felipemnoa wrote: post #17
galfarragem wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. Despite knowing several artists - I made artistic studies and used to follow the art scene - I'm yet to know a real artist. It takes a lot of courage to be one.

Could you please define what a real artist is to you? Not trying to be snide but rather really curious. This is a question coming from an engineer that sometimes has to try to be a bit artistic (and failing catastrophically) on some of his works.

Try to dissect the parent comment, is really spot on. I can't explain better. Some extra hints:

You are using the word artistic when you should use the word creative instead. An artist, sometimes, is not even the best painter, musician or sculptor. An artist is somebody that has the courage to live life trully according his way - being innovative by definition - and not to please somebody else.

Examples of artists (IMHO): Jim Morrison, Salvador Dali, Picasso, Basquiat, Paul Gauguin became one when abbandoned his life in Paris and went painting natives in Pacific islands in 19 century, probably Madonna and Michael Jackson while younger, probably Trump.. Jesus Christ..

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#65

Post by felipemnoa »

galfarragem wrote: post #64
felipemnoa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please define what a real artist is to you? Not trying to be snide but rather really curious. This is a question coming from an engineer that sometimes has to try to be a bit artistic (and failing catastrophically) on some of his works.

Try to dissect the parent comment, is really spot on. I can't explain better. Some extra hints: You are using the word artistic when you should use the word creative instead. An artist, sometimes, is not even the best painter, musician or sculptor. An artist is somebody that has the courage to live life trully according his way - being innovative by definition - and not to please somebody else. Examples of artists (I…

Thanks for the comment. Replacing "artistic" with "creative" really helps. Gives the whole thing a different perspective.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#66

Post by dredmorbius »

brudgers wrote: post #51
pmorici wrote: post #41

Reads more like a cautionary tale of what happens when you don't save for retirement than a story of a struggling artist

He's 86. Fifty years ago in 1958, when he was a young 26, prudent retirement planning was getting a good stable job with a pension. Forth years ago in 1968, when he was 36, prudent retirement planning was holding a stable job with a pension. 1978, he was 46 and prudence was still a pension. Even thirty years ago in 1988, it was the same for someone at 56. Now twenty years ago, when he was 66, new employees were typic…

NB: 1958 was 60 years ago, for non-timelords.
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