Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#201

Post by double0jimb0 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

gpmcadam wrote: post #145

hilyen wrote: post #73

They should be pushing for a study on neck injury / muscle strain on smart phone use. Millennials and the next gen after are going to pay dearly from injuries from bending their necks/heads down for years and years looking at their phones.

Do you have a source for smartphone usage having any impact on neck or muscle strain, versus non-smartphone usage, and why it would disproportionately affect millennials?

That is an easy one to answer: baby boomers, gen-x, and anyone over ~33 years old as of now... they didn't have cell phones or tablets growing up.

But I think what you are getting at is you want data supporting the emergence of a correlation in this new, younger cohort. I'd argue that a close proxy is the introduction of the PC workstation in the 70's and 80's and the "ergonomics" industry that resulted. Seems pretty easy to assume the same dynamics are at play again.

"The result of this study showed that prolonged use of smartphones could negatively affect both, posture and respiratory function." [0]

There is negative financial incentive for the device producers (Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, etc) if it is discovered that their products are harmful to consumer health. [1]

As for data confirming emergence of harm caused by smartphone/tablet, it is a easy google search to see professionals at top research universities and hospitals provide anecdotal evidence that there is a correlation. [2][3]

From personal experience, a talk with a professional in Physical Therapy or Occupation Therapy will yield their first hand experience with the identification of cell phone/tablet (and laptop) use as the source of the physical stressor, and the subsequent mitigation (through behavioral (use it less) and environmental (use ergonomically) change) as its cure.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4756000/

[1] http://www.crn.com/news/mobility/300089826/apple-ceo-tim-coo...

[2] https://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/pain/art...

[3] https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=is+smar...

*edited for more linkz

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#202

Post by JCSato » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

thomastjeffery wrote: post #82

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting device usage electronically or physically is a far cry away from snooping on your kids’ browsing or messaging histories. As far as intrusions go, this is a level 0. As a kid, we were limited by technology, so no limits were needed (SMB just wasn’t that replayable, and the TI/99 was even worse). Perhaps the solution to creativity here is to simply give your kids older computers to play with.

If my parents had limited my amount of time spent using a computer or paying video games, I would never have gone down the path that led me to here. I have extended family who have done this, and the difference is palpable.

I wonder how much of this has to do with lack of reexamination on the parents' part. Limiting 6 year olds to 30 minutes a day (or whatever) is fine - the same limitation is less appropriate for a 10 year old and even less appropriate for a teen.

It makes the most sense to me to expand time to use in adolescence, and what can be used in teenage years.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#203

Post by jmngomes » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #174

jmngomes wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are widely available sources and studies on the subject of how bad posture is destructive to the human skeleton...

... And yet you took the opportunity to cite none of it. I know about the studies of sitting for long periods...

I didn't cite any because - correct me if I'm wrong - the issue of how bad posture affects the human skeleton is a solved problem, i.e. it's basic common knowledge that can easily be found online or discussed with a medical doctor.

I don't think it's necessary to go all the way and research citations to disprove claims that are just challenging basic common sense without any argument in their support, e.g. I don't really go to great lengths to use data to disprove claims related to astrology.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#204

Post by Pigo » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

thalesmello wrote: post #40

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #29

I think it's worth taking a look at the parental controls that Nintendo put in for the Switch. They have a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03bAayBtcb0 I think it's worth watching, if for no other reason than to see Bowser & Bowser Jr.. iOS app link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id1190074407 Play store link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nintendo.z... For me, the only annoyance is th…

I was delighted to find out Nintendo took the care to approach this issue the way they did. If I had children, I would definitely buy a Nintendo Switch for them because of their focus in this aspect. Since I don't have any, I bought the Switch for myself instead. =)

I bought the switch for my 6 year old son for Christmas, his first console, because it was geared for younger kids and had these controls. Unfortunately it seems most of the games are really still aimed at 10+, so I've had to start playing the games with him.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#205

Post by emodendroket » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

ryukafalz wrote: post #88

emodendroket wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's more, television certainly did drastically change people's attention spans, the nature of news and the public debate, etc. Compare the rhetoric of 19th-Century politicians with what you hear today.

Serious question, I don't know the answer to this: was the rhetoric of 19th century politicians different because people were more civil/thoughtful in general or just because there were (most likely) proportionally fewer people paying attention? (Doubtless a bit of both, I suppose.)

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/turnout.php

Voter turnout as a percentage of eligible voters was significantly higher, so I don't think that's it.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#206

Post by Pigo » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

These discussions I've been seeing on this lately have been making me wonder if there's something odd about me. FB and Twitter simply do nothing for me, no dopamine at all. I get on once a week, maybe for 5 minutes, and then easily turn it off. I could give a damn about any of it really. Maybe I'm anti-social or have a chemical imbalance.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#207

Post by bertil » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

Pigo wrote: post #206

These discussions I've been seeing on this lately have been making me wonder if there's something odd about me. FB and Twitter simply do nothing for me, no dopamine at all. I get on once a week, maybe for 5 minutes, and then easily turn it off. I could give a damn about any of it really. Maybe I'm anti-social or have a chemical imbalance.

It is more likely that you find other activity exciting: exercise, food are two likely candidates, so are sexual gratifications. As you are active on Hacker News, I suspect that something code-related could be where you find fulfilment.

Most developers have strong opinions about the tool they use: key layout, editor, code & test patterns, project methodology. This is because they learn to use those effectively through neurological short-cuts. That makes not having them incredibly frustrating. Having rewards at different time scales (instant feedback from seeing your ideas on the screen, seeing code compile, error rates go down, a product being launched) can play the role that social media plays for people whose main activity is more conversational.

Or maybe, you just drink too much coffee.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#208

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #200

TeMPOraL wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get used to stop playing, they are forced not to treat game as number one priority in life and because they find other things to do with time. Basically, they're forced to learn to never immerse themselves in any activity. I'm not sure it's a good thing to ask for. At least the clear and predictable rules you describe help some. The kid will know in advance not to immerse themselves, because there isn't enough…

> Basically, they're forced to learn to never immerse themselves in any activity. I'm not sure it's a good thing to ask for. No, inability to play computer game whole day every day at age of seven will not break your ability to immerse into activity. Being immersed so much that you don't control yourself and act badly is issue parents need to deal with. If they don't, the older the kid grows the more consequences it…

Do you ever enjoy a good book? Like really enjoy, immersed in the created world or in the depth of facts presented, reading it possibly until late hours in the night? Imagine doing this, and me coming to you out of the blue and taking the book away in the middle of a plot twist, for no reason whatsoever. Then imagine not being able to ever enjoy a book like that.

That's what we're talking about doing to kids. Kids may not be as smart as adults, but they have feelings and imagination just as much, if not even more than us. Hell, I remember how I myself hated being randomly interrupted at early-teenage years.

> Being immersed so much that you don't control yourself and act badly is issue parents need to deal with.

I'd vote for dealing with it by not putting the kid in that position in the first place. It would be totally understandable of an adult to "behave badly" if the event we're describing happened to them.

> if the toy causes enough bullshit for the rest familly, parents are entitled to limit it for their own or siblings sake

Parents are entitled to everything, but it would be wise of them to realize that any bullshit caused by a toy is of their own making.

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#209

Post by le-mark » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #197

le-mark wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't down vote, but I took the gp to be an expression of opinion rather than a statement of fact, and neck pain from phone use being something I can relate to. Merely asking for sources can be distracting when discussing opinions. I think a more cogent response would be "How is smart phone use different than reading a paper or having ones nose buried in a book?" which of course isn't new, but the same physical mo…

Well at least you're making a rational argument!

Indeed, intelligent people can debate in good faith[1], without battering one another with sources. Since a source (or out of context snippet) can be found to support nearly any assertion, sources are not the end all. Often times, source ladden arguments devolve to a debate of source validity and authoritativeness. Which to me, is boring.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

Re: Apple shareholders push for study of phone addiction in children

#210

Post by 659087 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

krisives wrote: post #76

Full disclosure: I work for a company called DnsLearning (although we are rebranding to StudyCity) Our system is simple, you point your child's device at a DNS server then add various accounts to supported educational sites like Khan Academy, Duolingo, Prodigy Math, etc. Our server detects when your child earns points on these platforms and disables access to non-educational (junk) sites until they earn X points to u…

I'd rather see this implemented in a way that didn't involve a third party collecting data about children.