This could very well be humanity’s Great Filter.
Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
51–60 of 104 posts
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
And that commitment is exactly the problem.
It's more that such a commitment goes against the incentives laid down by a means of production that is enforced almost globally by both treaty and military might.
Reality is simpler - it's in no one's (perceived, short-term) best interest to be the first to spend money, material and manpower on fixing this, because the moment they start, they'll get eaten alive by their competitors. This applies at the level of individuals, small businesses, large businesses and governments alike.
It's a garden variety coordination problem - but it seems that, with technology successfully solving most of our non-social problems, lack of coordination is what underlies all the important issues humanity faces these days.
See also http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ for an in-depth discussion of coordination problems.
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
The key is extremely. As an example, DDT sprayed to get rid of certain insects killed off a large number of birds at the top of the food chain, such trouble tends to concentrate. So poison the lower levels and the intermediate levels might survive but the apex species will suffer the most.
Oh, if you're referring to biological magnification then yes, but that's not the problem we're talking about, right? We're talking about global warming, which leads to species dying off (due to habitat loss, etc.) rather than staying alive but accumulating toxins... that's where I don't get how things would be any different if we were lower in the food chain?
It's the exact same effect but through a different path. Thinnk of it as a house, no matter where the house develops problems you'll always see it in the roof.
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#54An important topic, but can we at least have some mention of what we can do to improve oxygen levels in the oceans (aside from reducing the level of pollution, which is the obvious but slowest to implement solution). Surely there's something that could be done to tackle this in a more immediate manner? Are there plants within the ocean ecosystem that convert carbon dioxide to oxygen?
>It is estimated that between 50% and 85% of the world's oxygen is produced via phytoplankton photosynthesis.
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#55Nobody mentioned reducing pollution and greenhouse emission is the best way to help the situation so I will -- non-polluting alternatives to flying, eating meat, heating and cooling (I'm surprised how many people heat their homes in the winter so they can walk around in shorts), packaged food. Having fewer children. As a community, HN seems to think nuclear energy is easy while carpooling or flying less are misguided…
> As a community, HN seems to think nuclear energy is easy while carpooling or flying less are misguided wastes of effort.
Yes, because it's the truth. Knowing that reflects understanding.
It's orders of magnitude easier to design[0] a nuclear reactor than it is to get a meaningful number of people to voluntarily refrain from flying, or even driving cars. Getting lots of people to agree on something, especially when they have strong short-term incentives for not following through on that agreement, is a near-impossible thing.
Pretty much the only way to tackle coordination problems (without going full-authoritarian, one dictator to rule the world) is to develop technologies and strategies that reduce the "activation energy" required for people to coordinate on an issue.
We won't get ourselves out of this mess by appeals to our shared human heritage, because responsibility for the planet always takes a backseat when one's tired and has to choose between 20 minutes in a car or 1 hour in a bus to pick up their daughter from school.
--
[0] - and build it; but notice where pretty much all the problems with building a nuclear plant are - getting the local population to agree to it.
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#56An important topic, but can we at least have some mention of what we can do to improve oxygen levels in the oceans (aside from reducing the level of pollution, which is the obvious but slowest to implement solution). Surely there's something that could be done to tackle this in a more immediate manner? Are there plants within the ocean ecosystem that convert carbon dioxide to oxygen?
Think of the oceans - not the forests - as the earth's lungs.
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is flying really that bad compared to ocean pollution? I feel like flying is overall a pretty efficient means of transport, everything is geared towards efficiency. Plastic in the oceans, now that’s a mess.
Consider a world where every human traveled by plane like you do and where also every human used recycling as you do. Would you prefer living in that world?
Not the OP, but if jet fuel were more sustainable or electric planes more common then certainly.
(I too feel conflicted about plane travel and it's long term impact.)
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh, if you're referring to biological magnification then yes, but that's not the problem we're talking about, right? We're talking about global warming, which leads to species dying off (due to habitat loss, etc.) rather than staying alive but accumulating toxins... that's where I don't get how things would be any different if we were lower in the food chain?
It's the exact same effect but through a different path. Thinnk of it as a house, no matter where the house develops problems you'll always see it in the roof.
Not sure I understand the analogy. What classes of problems a house can develop structurally that are primarily visible standing on the roof, before the whole thing collapses? Or do you mean that even a partial collapse always affects things above it?
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#59An important topic, but can we at least have some mention of what we can do to improve oxygen levels in the oceans (aside from reducing the level of pollution, which is the obvious but slowest to implement solution). Surely there's something that could be done to tackle this in a more immediate manner? Are there plants within the ocean ecosystem that convert carbon dioxide to oxygen?
>It is estimated that between 50% and 85% of the world's oxygen is produced via phytoplankton photosynthesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoplankton
Thank you, that was the information I was looking for.
Re: Ocean's Oxygen Starts Running Low (2016)
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks, I never fully understood what people meant with that phrase. :)
No problem, it's when something can be improved when everyone does the right thing together, but nobody has any incentive to do the right thing alone. Exactly like dumping trash everywhere, if you do the right thing alone, you're just inconveniencing yourself by spending money to dispose of trash properly while everyone else dumps it wherever.
Thanks again, very informative. So does that mean that the prisoner's dilemma is unrelated to this ?
The reason I mentioned that is that I figured there were two outcomes:
- be rich/save money now, and get a possible competitive edge over other countries
- invest in your future, long-term assuming other countries do the same