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Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

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Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#121

Post by gnu8 »

chrissnell wrote: post #117
seanp2k2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs. Why it doesn’t do this and “tries” to guess their position somehow is beyond me. I use the OWC TB3 dock with dual Asus PA328qs with the latest firmware. Because of apparently some lame design decisions, in order to run dual external monitors over a single TB3 port, you need the dock, which has one DisplayPort output, then a TB3-> DisplayPort (via USB-C alt mode II…

I hit a breaking point with the Apple laptops a couple of years ago. It was actually iTunes that drove me off. iTunes Match somehow corrupted and lost a bunch of my music. Forever gone and I didn't have backups. After working with Support for a while, I finally gave up and bought a new ThinkPad T470s and put Arch Linux on it and never looked back. Things work really well and predictably. I have it dialed in just how…

> I didn't have backups.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#123

Post by alwillis »

rdtsc wrote: post #86
alwillis wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we can’t have nice things--random reports of things not working are pretty meaningless without context. Yes, it’s fodder to continue to dump on Apple—I get that. But it certainly doesn’t help solve the issue, assuming there’s really an issue in the first place. For the record, I’ve installed htop many dozens of times using Homebrew on a variety of Mac hardware and operating systems over the years and have…

> This is why we can’t have nice things--random reports of things not working are pretty meaningless without context No they are not. A lot of the same reports with same combination of htop + iTerm should prompt the company to investigate. At least when they are selling $2k "premium" machines. > I’ve installed htop many dozens of times using Homebrew on a variety of Mac hardware Neither did I except since I upgraded…

One is a non-profit foundation and another is a company with almost $800B in capital. There is a slight difference and different expectations there as well.

1. You’re confusing Apple’s market capitalization (around $890 billion) with it’s cash on hand + marketable securities , which is only $268 billion: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02/earnings-4q-2017/

Regardless, it’s not relevant to this discussion since we know all of these companies who make tens of billions each quarter have bugs and security issues.

Given your logic, there’s no excuse for Intel creating vulnerable processors going back to 1997, with literally hundreds of millions of computers that can be compromised and hacked. It wouldn’t take more than a few percent of these machines to be hacked to potentially cause havoc all over the world.

The point being: money doesn’t mean you can’t screw up; being a non-profit doesn’t let you off the hook. It’s not crazy to expect the FreeBSD team to say more than “we’ll get back to you” regarding fixes. At least the Linux guys are dealing: http://www.zdnet.com/article/major-linux-redesign-in-the-wor...

FreeBSD also doesn’t have over 1 billion vulnerable devices in the wild either; their threat model is tiny compared to what Apple and the rest of Intel’s OEM’s have to deal with.

I know, I know: Apple is always held to a different standard; they should give equal weight to an incorrect compiler flag for htop as they would for preventing more than 1 billion of their smartphones, tablets and computers from being hacked.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#124

Post by bangonkeyboard »

alwillis wrote: post #116
rdtsc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we can’t have nice things--random reports of things not working are pretty meaningless without context No they are not. A lot of the same reports with same combination of htop + iTerm should prompt the company to investigate. At least when they are selling $2k "premium" machines. > I’ve installed htop many dozens of times using Homebrew on a variety of Mac hardware Neither did I except since I upgraded…

Even if htop doesn't work correctly, and is complete garbage it doesn't install kernel extension and doesn't run with admin privileges so it shouldn't freeze the machine or render it unusable which is seems to do. Turns out it doesn’t, but it’s not unusual for people to make these types of unsubstantiated claims; turns out it’s a build issue that conflicts with High Sierra. The Homebrew team updated the formula so it…

Speaking of making unsubstantiated claims: this post is totally untrue. The formula was not updated with an OS requirement due to some misconstrued build issue; installation on High Sierra was blocked 6 hours ago, as noted in the very issue thread that this HN topic is about [0], explicitly because the freezes and crashes are very real and reproducible.

[0]: https://github.com/hishamhm/htop/issues/682#issuecomment-355...

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#125

Post by alwillis »

sgolestane wrote: post #104
tomjakubowski wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it seems Apple has forced us to choose between Meltdown mitigation and a somewhat working OS. The recent Sierra security updates didn’t include the Meltdown patch. https://twitter.com/theregister/status/949358083431546880

Apple has actually backported the fix to Sierra and even El Capitan. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208331

My educated guess, based on 14-years working for MIT’s IT department: the fixes for Sierra and El Capitan broke something important, so they got pulled.

When they get fixed, they’ll be re-released…

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#126

Post by dingo_bat »

saulrh wrote: post #54

1. By creating and closing process very rapidly, one could easily reproduce this problem. I used something like `while true; do sh -c "exit 0"; done`. The entire OS dying to rapidly spawned/exited processes permits a pretty nasty DoS. Good thing that nobody ever uses macs as servers or shared machines.

Just tried it on Ubuntu (Windows) for fun. 5 minutes later the fans have come on but no freezing yet.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#127

Post by Decade »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #22
notadoc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this is purely anecdotal, but at least 70% of the developers, IT workers, and researchers that I know are using prior generation MacBook Pro hardware (the ones without the touch bar or terrible keyboard, and with ports) and are intentionally using the older OSX versions. I know several people who traded in 2016/2017 models for 2015 models because it's literally an upgrade; get an older machine and you suddenly h…

An especially unfortunate truth is that many developers have grown so afraid of workflow-breaking bugs that they're willing to risk security flaws just so they can get work done. The things I would do (and pay) for 2010-Apple tier hardware built for CentOS in both laptop and phone form factors...

> 2010-Apple tier hardware built for CentOS

Librem? https://puri.sm

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#128

Post by 2trill2spill »

somethingsimple wrote: post #112
2trill2spill wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FreeBSD 12(current) on a 2017 XPS 13 has been great for me. Funny thing is I never imagined buying a dell laptop. I was going to purchase a new mac, but the touch bar killed that for me. So far so good with the XPS 13.

How much of a hassle was it to set it up? Are all peripherals working?

To get a working install it was very easy. I just grabbed the latest FreeBSD 12 snapshot iso and put it on a usb drive and installed like normal. Everything but the wifi works. So I'm using a usb wifi dongle. You need the new (experimental) drm-next code and drivers for suspend and resume support. If your comfortable with a unix command line environment you can get a working dev environment in a couple hours.

So besides the wifi everything is working and iirc someone has been working on a driver for the builtin wifi card and plans on merging it into 12 sometime this year.

But so far I'm loving it, I have ZFS, Dtrace, Sublime3, Firefox57 and xterm, which is an ideal dev environment for me.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#129

Post by rdtsc »

alwillis wrote: post #123
rdtsc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we can’t have nice things--random reports of things not working are pretty meaningless without context No they are not. A lot of the same reports with same combination of htop + iTerm should prompt the company to investigate. At least when they are selling $2k "premium" machines. > I’ve installed htop many dozens of times using Homebrew on a variety of Mac hardware Neither did I except since I upgraded…

One is a non-profit foundation and another is a company with almost $800B in capital. There is a slight difference and different expectations there as well. 1. You’re confusing Apple’s market capitalization (around $890 billion) with it’s cash on hand + marketable securities , which is only $268 billion: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02/earnings-4q-2017/ Regardless, it’s not relevant to this discussion since we k…

> I know: Apple is always held to a different standard;

That's exactly what I was getting to. They should be held to a different standard.

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/63985/

They were notified in late December, before the holidays. Intel knew for 6 months at least. So even there some vendors had more time than others.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#130

Post by codezero »

malchow wrote: post #32
notadoc wrote: post #3

High Sierra seems like a great OS if you want an unstable workstation that doesn't work with tools you've used everyday for well over a decade.

I'm on macOS High Sierra for the spontaneity. Every morning, I go to wake my Macbook Pro with two 4K USB-C connected displays and external keyboard and mouse. Will one display turn on? Both? Neither? Who knows!

I am always baffled by these reports. I’ve had nothing but success with external monitors on my last three MacBooks. What is your setup out of curiosity? Monitor brand, connection type, cable brand etc.

I’m assuming I’m an outlier because I see this in almost every thread that mentions MacBooks and I am real curious how it manifests.

Edit: reading further comments it sounds like possibly the monitors use the same edids? Wonder if you can check that easily.

I’ve almost always used Dell monitors fwiw.

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