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Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

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Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#111

Post by somethingsimple »

linkmotif wrote: post #49
vanilla_nut wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An especially unfortunate truth is that many developers have grown so afraid of workflow-breaking bugs that they're willing to risk security flaws just so they can get work done. The things I would do (and pay) for 2010-Apple tier hardware built for CentOS in both laptop and phone form factors...

> The things I would do (and pay) for 2010-Apple tier hardware built for CentOS Isn’t it remarkable this still doesn’t exist? Build quality still does not compare in the PC world. Yet, I’m on a MBA3,2 (late 2010) and it’s great. Still running Yosemite. It’s got 4gb ram but handles running 10 JVMs with modest heaps for development no problem. Stable and runs for months without issue. I’d love more RAM and more cores b…

> Yet, I’m on a MBA3,2 (late 2010) and it’s great. Still running Yosemite. It’s got 4gb ram but handles running 10 JVMs with modest heaps for development no problem. Stable and runs for months without issue. I’d love more RAM and more cores but none of these computers seem worth it.

I have the same hardware but unfortunately my experience is the exact opposite. It’s barely usable. I literally can’t browse JavaScript-heavy websites (e.g. Gmail).

I wonder if having kept up with the OS releases has anything to do with it (I’m on High Sierra).

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#112

Post by somethingsimple »

2trill2spill wrote: post #20
dm319 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a developer, but I knew developers were previously content with Macbooks usually running OSX or linux. Given so much unhappiness with OSX, and the inability to run linux on the USB-C macbook pros, what are developers generally doing? The Apple hardware is nice, but it generally means you have to use OSX. Windows WSL is pretty convenient, but then you have to use Windows. Linux is, of course, great, but what h…

FreeBSD 12(current) on a 2017 XPS 13 has been great for me. Funny thing is I never imagined buying a dell laptop. I was going to purchase a new mac, but the touch bar killed that for me. So far so good with the XPS 13.

How much of a hassle was it to set it up? Are all peripherals working?

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#113

Post by alwillis »

andrewflnr wrote: post #91
alwillis wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we can’t have nice things--random reports of things not working are pretty meaningless without context. Yes, it’s fodder to continue to dump on Apple—I get that. But it certainly doesn’t help solve the issue, assuming there’s really an issue in the first place. For the record, I’ve installed htop many dozens of times using Homebrew on a variety of Mac hardware and operating systems over the years and have…

> Was this a clean install or was it upgraded from a previous version of macOS? You do realize, don't you, that if this is a relevant question I already have cause to complain? It's been the future for some time now, give us reliable upgrades already.

You do realize, don't you, that if this is a relevant question I already have cause to complain? It's been the future for some time now, give us reliable upgrades already.

Yes, it’s the future, but as I mentioned, the Mac I’m running High Sierra on is nearly 10 years-old—it shipped with a version of Snow Leopard, MacOS x 10.6.

That was 7 major operating system releases ago—pretty sure nobody at Apple tested upgrading from an operating system that hasn’t been supported by Apple in many years, not to mention all of the permutations of hardware, kernel extensions, file systems, 3rd-party software installs, etc.

This is the double-edged sword: no matter what Apple does, they’re wrong. If they don’t support older machines with the latest operating system, then it’s a conspiracy to force its users to upgrade.

If they do support older machines and can’t guarantee perfect upgrades from every version operating system they’ve ever shipped, regardless of the condition of the user’s machine and how well (or not) the machine has been maintained, they’re also wrong.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#114

Post by ReverseCold »

btown wrote: post #62
saulrh wrote: post #54

1. By creating and closing process very rapidly, one could easily reproduce this problem. I used something like `while true; do sh -c "exit 0"; done`. The entire OS dying to rapidly spawned/exited processes permits a pretty nasty DoS. Good thing that nobody ever uses macs as servers or shared machines.

Geez; does this mean it could do the same when compiling a large codebase with Make?

When I read the headline I didn't think I had run into this bug. Now I remember my OS freezing twice when quickly opening and closing some chrome tabs.

Could possibly be the same issue.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#115

Post by WWLink »

znpy wrote: post #88
seanp2k2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs. Why it doesn’t do this and “tries” to guess their position somehow is beyond me. I use the OWC TB3 dock with dual Asus PA328qs with the latest firmware. Because of apparently some lame design decisions, in order to run dual external monitors over a single TB3 port, you need the dock, which has one DisplayPort output, then a TB3-> DisplayPort (via USB-C alt mode II…

> For a ~$6k setup, it’s awful. It’d be awful for $1k. About 10 years ago, I had a Dell D830 running Fedora and later, early versions of Gnome shell. The dock powered the laptop and a mouse, keyboard, external drive, and two monitors. It was a single (albeit proprietary) connector, and the dock was fairly expensive (~$200 IIRC). It worked damn great, nearly every time, even with sleep States in Linux on a laptop 10 y…

I dunno what you're whining about, I've had multi monitor setups on several mac laptops and they've always worked fine. Same on my desktop. Same on my work desktop. It's almost always more reliable than doing it on Windows.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#116

Post by alwillis »

rdtsc wrote: post #86
alwillis wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we can’t have nice things--random reports of things not working are pretty meaningless without context. Yes, it’s fodder to continue to dump on Apple—I get that. But it certainly doesn’t help solve the issue, assuming there’s really an issue in the first place. For the record, I’ve installed htop many dozens of times using Homebrew on a variety of Mac hardware and operating systems over the years and have…

> This is why we can’t have nice things--random reports of things not working are pretty meaningless without context No they are not. A lot of the same reports with same combination of htop + iTerm should prompt the company to investigate. At least when they are selling $2k "premium" machines. > I’ve installed htop many dozens of times using Homebrew on a variety of Mac hardware Neither did I except since I upgraded…

Even if htop doesn't work correctly, and is complete garbage it doesn't install kernel extension and doesn't run with admin privileges so it shouldn't freeze the machine or render it unusable which is seems to do.

Turns out it doesn’t, but it’s not unusual for people to make these types of unsubstantiated claims; turns out it’s a build issue that conflicts with High Sierra.

The Homebrew team updated the formula so it doesn’t try to install on High Sierra until they can fix it.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#117

Post by chrissnell »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #44
malchow wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on macOS High Sierra for the spontaneity. Every morning, I go to wake my Macbook Pro with two 4K USB-C connected displays and external keyboard and mouse. Will one display turn on? Both? Neither? Who knows!

Store the screen layout using serials from the EDIDs. Why it doesn’t do this and “tries” to guess their position somehow is beyond me. I use the OWC TB3 dock with dual Asus PA328qs with the latest firmware. Because of apparently some lame design decisions, in order to run dual external monitors over a single TB3 port, you need the dock, which has one DisplayPort output, then a TB3-> DisplayPort (via USB-C alt mode II…

I hit a breaking point with the Apple laptops a couple of years ago. It was actually iTunes that drove me off. iTunes Match somehow corrupted and lost a bunch of my music. Forever gone and I didn't have backups. After working with Support for a while, I finally gave up and bought a new ThinkPad T470s and put Arch Linux on it and never looked back. Things work really well and predictably. I have it dialed in just how I like it; every hardware component except the proprietary fingerprint reader is supported. Switching to a tiling window manager has been a huge productivity boost, too.

Now that office suites are in the cloud along with music and everything else, I no longer see the draw of Apple hardware for a developer laptop.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#118

Post by sulam »

stephen_g wrote: post #26
notadoc wrote: post #3

High Sierra seems like a great OS if you want an unstable workstation that doesn't work with tools you've used everyday for well over a decade.

It’s weird, I keep hearing things like this but have encountered literally no issues with it on my mid-2015 MacBook Pro... Is there some particular hardware that it’s dodgy on or am I just lucky?

I have more than the usual anecdata, curious when it becomes data. :)

Personally, 6 Macs upgraded and I had one problem that was caused by crappy vendor software which assumed port 8080 would be available for them to use.

In the office we finally got the okay to update everyone and 100s of devs are doing fine. There was a homebrew issue that, if you hit it, required a reinstall, but that wasn’t so bad.

High Sierra finally kills Python 2.6 in favor of 2.7, and I had an app fail that embedded Python 2.6 pyc files as an obfuscation — 2.7 wouldn’t run them. I worked with that developer to debug and got a new build out — they were receiving many reports of High Sierra issues that were all caused by that.

Pretty typical OS upgrade, other than the early stuff — but there’s a reason you don’t upgrade until at least .1 is out!

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#119

Post by sulam »

iamdave wrote: post #74
notadoc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this is purely anecdotal, but at least 70% of the developers, IT workers, and researchers that I know are using prior generation MacBook Pro hardware (the ones without the touch bar or terrible keyboard, and with ports) and are intentionally using the older OSX versions. I know several people who traded in 2016/2017 models for 2015 models because it's literally an upgrade; get an older machine and you suddenly h…

> but at least 70% of the developers, IT workers, and researchers that I know are using prior generation MacBook Pro hardware You can have my 2015 MBP when you pry it from my cold dead hands. But yes. We recently sold off a bunch of hardware resulting from workforce reductions; I clued a friend in on this and he was begging me to nab him a 2015 MBP. The obsession is real, it is the last truly great Macbook in a while…

The 2015 MBP is the one I don’t use any more but keep anyway because I know it will never fail me. I also stay one version behind on it, so it’s the only system I have using Sierra still. But my main system now is an iMac pro and you would have to send in troops to separate me from it. Although I still can’t stand their crappy keyboards, regardless of color.

Re: Leaving htop running freezes macOS High Sierra

#120

Post by linkmotif »

somethingsimple wrote: post #111
linkmotif wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The things I would do (and pay) for 2010-Apple tier hardware built for CentOS Isn’t it remarkable this still doesn’t exist? Build quality still does not compare in the PC world. Yet, I’m on a MBA3,2 (late 2010) and it’s great. Still running Yosemite. It’s got 4gb ram but handles running 10 JVMs with modest heaps for development no problem. Stable and runs for months without issue. I’d love more RAM and more cores b…

> Yet, I’m on a MBA3,2 (late 2010) and it’s great. Still running Yosemite. It’s got 4gb ram but handles running 10 JVMs with modest heaps for development no problem. Stable and runs for months without issue. I’d love more RAM and more cores but none of these computers seem worth it. I have the same hardware but unfortunately my experience is the exact opposite. It’s barely usable. I literally can’t browse JavaScript-…

Weird! I’m sorry to hear that. My fan starts whirring on video/graphics heavy sites, like landing pages with huge videos or overwrought effects. But sites like Gmail are totally fine. Maybe it is the OS updates? I almost pulled the trigger and updated the other day but I’ll hold off now with this story. Gah, that is frustrating.
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