German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account • Hacker News Board

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#271

Post by MikkoFinell » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:53 AM UTC

drb91 wrote: post #35

MikkoFinell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascists aren't what they used to be. They used to be a far-right fringe, but fascism lately is more of a thing on the left.

This is crap and a lazy claim. In the US, for instance, fascist tactics from democrats appear to originate from neo-liberals (Clinton, Obama) rather than leftists (Warren, Sanders, Stein). If you squint, you can see that capitalism and regulatory capture have always been core to fascism. Neither are leftist values at all. If you're obliquely referring to, err, recent "PC" culture, that seems to share a lot more with…

What about the trend of shutting down or outright physically attacking speakers at collage campuses lately? I'd call that using violence to suppress politically opposing opinions, and it's something that you will exclusively see leftist do against speakers they disagree with. Or concepts such as the Progressive Stack, where people are discriminated against based on race and gender, in other words literally racism. Or any of the other crazy ideas coming out of social justice these days.

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#272

Post by InternetUser » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:27 AM UTC

kikimaru wrote: post #214

InternetUser wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been and still am friends with people who have all sorts of prejudiced views, ranging from those who hate particular ethnic groups and nationalities (including my own), to those who disparage and insult those with different interests of educational backgrounds (such as one friend who is an I.T. guy and who constantly refers to non-I.T. people, even within his own family in shocking misanthropistic terms). Ever…

Is it "fucking USERS, man"?

Is that a movie quote or something?

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#273

Post by hateduser2 » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 7:09 AM UTC

kadenshep wrote: post #257

hateduser2 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of quotes in the OP article that side with GP. Without having done research myself I think it’s plausibly true and the article is full of quotes that suggest this is the case. Your tone is hostile and that makes me disinclined to take your view. Overall I would side with GP over you and I’d hope other users who haven’t done research themselves would too. Don’t let your biases inform your opinions!

>Your tone is hostile and that makes me disinclined to take your view. >Don’t let your biases inform your opinions! These are not complimentary positions, they're pretty exclusive of each other. Methinks you just wanted to take the high ground with some generic platitude and misdirect the conversation.

They can’t be exclusive of each other if I successfully hold both at once

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#274

Post by vk23 » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 8:49 AM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #237

vk23 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "islamic culture" thing is just a populist move. In the end they dont care if the refugees are islamic or christian (there are actually a lot of christian people in the arabic speaking region) Also they are constantly talking about saving the german/north european culture/people. This is more about race and racism than anything else. Regarding the second part: Its obviously true that there is a scientific b…

>In the end they dont care if the refugees are islamic or christian (there are actually a lot of christian people in the arabic speaking region) Yes they do. Even Trump has supported increasing Christian refugees. Although religion is far from the only important factor to Western culture. >Also they are constantly talking about saving the german/north european culture/people. This is more about race and racism than a…

>I fail to see how wanting to preserve your race is racism. I like my own people and want to see them continue. It doesn't mean I literally hate and oppose other peoples.

As soon as you value people based on their race ("your people" are worth more than others) you are in racist territory.

>And I really do think you underestimate the cultural aspect of it. If they were brown skinned but otherwise culturally indistinguishable from Europeans, I think far fewer people would care.

In Germany the most racism takes place in regions where nearly no immigrants/refugees live. The people are just afraid and do not try to find out if "they" are that different after all (spoiler alert: they are not)

>Labeling your opponents "racists" is just a convenient way of dismissing their concerns.

This is true and i dont want to dismiss anybodies opinion but if you talk about banning a whole race/religion from entering your country (trump) or refuse to help refugees from certain reasons (german afd in the article) and discredit them at every opportunity you are by definition a racist.

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#275

Post by baud147258 » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 8:57 AM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #260

baud147258 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FN has also been known to murder French politicians. Do you have any sources on that? With all the things the media in France is saying about the FN, I don't think they would have missed something so important.

> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Front_National Nevertheless, and notwithstanding the racist murders committed by some members (see Brahim Bouarram thrown in the Seine, and Ibrahim Ali, shot), the FN continued its progress and even managed to gain some towns in 1995, such as Toulon and Orange, where, once more, such mayors managed to show their crass incompetence[3] and got booted in 2001 by the electors. Source for B…

Thank you for your answer.

That could be constructed as racist hate crime by party "supporters" (not even members), and could have nothing to do with the party itself. On the other hand, since it align with the party's ideology, it can be said that the FN has a part in it.

But I don't see how it shows that the FN has murdered any politicians, which was what I was asking about

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#276

Post by everdev » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #265

everdev wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think so too about religion. But now I've met some people who believe their religion is bigger than them as an individual. Renouncing it is simply not something they believe they have the power or right to do. Other times, they're born into a religious community and renouncing a religion means losing their community, which can feel like dying or worse. In Muslim majority countries, I can imagine there is a…

Sure, and the threat of losing a community applies to many extreme groups. I don't see how it changes anything or means they're something we don't have to worry about. The false idea that religion is intrinsic is used to silence and justify violently attacking people that criticise religion, particularly Islam. But let's agree to stop messaging each other. This is a waste of time - it's a shit ideology and I honestly…

Sorry, wasn't me down voting. I actually really appreciated the dialogue.

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#277

Post by everdev » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #264

everdev wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, simply confronting violence against gays includes Islam-related violence against gays. I'm simply not excluding other violence against gays from my outrage. Rather than saying "Islam is bad", it might be better to say "I don't like X about Islam because Y." If you are more specific and give a reason, it's easier for people to hear you. But yes, taking the person out of it does make it easier for people to hear yo…

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi... , it's around a thousand Muslims each in 20+ countries. I wouldn't hesitate to 'Nazism is bad' or 'Communism is bad' or 'Fascism is bad' - and saying 'I don't like X about fascism' doesn't really make the same point.

You can say those things, but if I feel judged I know it's hard for me to really hear the person who's judging me. I guess it depends on your goal. If you want to make people who agree with you feel comfortable, maybe judgements would serve that purpose. But if you want people to change their behavior, I'm not sure I've seen blanket judgements like that have success.

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#278

Post by sabertoothed » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #145

I'm so very glad the USA founders made the first amendment. Other countries are not as lucky as we are.

You do understand that there is no 100% free speech in the US either, right? Or in any other country for that matter.

And that is a _good_ thing.

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#279

Post by bluthru » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

bluthru wrote: post #157

rubatuga wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious how multiculturalism makes people fear for their life. Do you mean that a certain group of people may lose their lifestyle? Or do you actually mean life-death scenarios? I am trying quite hard, but I cannot think of any situation of multiculturalism that makes somebody fear their own death. Unless, if in fact you are talking about violence and crime from immigrants, you are free to express it. Furthermor…

>Or do you actually mean life-death scenarios? https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-hom... >Unless, if in fact you are talking about violence and crime from immigrants, you are free to express it. You can usually express it, but the police in some areas might be afraid to act on it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rother... >Almost always racism can be shown to be linked to v…

Hmm... just downvotes and no replies to a comment with sources. Not exactly a high level of discourse.

Re: German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire account

#280

Post by Houshalter » Sat, Jan 06, 2018, 5:14 AM UTC

vk23 wrote: post #274

Houshalter wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the end they dont care if the refugees are islamic or christian (there are actually a lot of christian people in the arabic speaking region) Yes they do. Even Trump has supported increasing Christian refugees. Although religion is far from the only important factor to Western culture. >Also they are constantly talking about saving the german/north european culture/people. This is more about race and racism than a…

>I fail to see how wanting to preserve your race is racism. I like my own people and want to see them continue. It doesn't mean I literally hate and oppose other peoples. As soon as you value people based on their race ("your people" are worth more than others) you are in racist territory. >And I really do think you underestimate the cultural aspect of it. If they were brown skinned but otherwise culturally indisting…

>As soon as you value people based on their race ("your people" are worth more than others) you are in racist territory.

Then 99.99% of humans who have ever lived are "racist". It's an meaningless mindkilling word, stop using it.

The weirdest thing about this is most liberals qualify as "racist" by your definition, when they take the outside view. For instance China taking over Tibet. And flooding it with Chinese immigrants, to outnumber and replace the Tibetan people. Or similar things done by Russians to areas they conquered. Or some aspects of what happened to the native americans. Liberals seem pretty upset by these things and even consider them genocide.

>In Germany the most racism takes place in regions where nearly no immigrants/refugees live.

Because immigrants congregate in cities, and cities tend to be more liberal. Besides don't take what people vote for too seriously. When put to it, even liberal whites show a strong preference for living in white neighborhoods.