Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#241

Post by mplewis » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

Helmet wrote: post #196

mylons wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he's responsible for his actions, but the way you word that makes it sound like he's the only person responsible for the morally reprehensible things Uber has done, which is not true.

What exactly did he or Uber do that is morally reprehensible? To me "morally reprehensible" implies something quite extreme, like, say, genocide, callous violent crime, rape, etc.

They illegally obtained medical records of a rape victim. If that's not morally reprehensible, I don't know where you draw the line.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#242

Post by atonse » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

Helmet wrote: post #196

mylons wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he's responsible for his actions, but the way you word that makes it sound like he's the only person responsible for the morally reprehensible things Uber has done, which is not true.

What exactly did he or Uber do that is morally reprehensible? To me "morally reprehensible" implies something quite extreme, like, say, genocide, callous violent crime, rape, etc.

That's a pretty high bar. So then every single thing that pretty much every single monopolist has done is totally fine since, you know, it wasn't genocide?

Uber did lots of, if not ethically grey, completely unethical (and unlawful) things. Least of which includes tracking regulators and government inspectors, and also surveillance on their users and celebrities based on the rides they'd take. That's not even counting all the bro culture and sexual harassment that seems to have been rampant.

It does come from the top. A lot of those people that were fired, were hired by Kalanick.

Nobody's shedding a tear for a jerk like Kalanick, especially not after his multi-billion dollar payout. He'll be just fine. In fact, by any stretch of it, he's being HANDSOMELY rewarded for his behavior.

He has simply no reason to change.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#243

Post by mplewis » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

carlivar wrote: post #203

AlexandrB wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last 50 years American exceptionalism has morphed from: "We are the greatest country on earth, unique in our ability to achieve." to "We are the most special snowflake country in the world, unique in our inability to improve healthcare, public infrastructure, or reduce deaths by firearms." It's really quite sad, I hope you guys get our of your rut soon.

Hyperloop, if it isn't just hype, is a step in the right direction.

Hyperloop is another private service for the wealthy. It won't help connect communities like locally-owned public transit does.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#244

Post by debt » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

Why? He was sitting on a goldmine and fucked it all up due to his own arrogance.

And all the unethical, getting-their-hands-dirty shit you mentioned seems of dubious value and certainly moreso now that he's been fired from his company; seems like all the same could've been achieved without hiring a team of assholes and without being one himself.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#245

Post by virusduck » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #147

craigching wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. How about we improve public transport? I know it’s unpopular to propose “socialist” ideas, but public transport works elsewhere in the world, why does it have to be so horrible here? Why does someone have to profit for somet…

>>How about we improve public transport? That sort of costs money, hence taxes. Which no one can agree upon, as everyone has their own list of what's important for them. >>Why does someone have to profit for something that you agree is a “pain?” Because people have to get paid, infrastructure and operations have to be expanded and world needs to run.

> That sort of costs money, hence taxes.

Indeed. And Uber is no different. The cost of our cheap rides is still paid by the wealthy, in this case VCs and other investors.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#246

Post by Balgair » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #99

Balgair wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> correct whatever the bug in the function was. You mean the egregious sexual harassing and blatant attempts to obstruct justice? Or do you mean the ability of people on the HN forums to predict the future?

Who did Travis sexually harass?

Like, if your kids run off and stomp all over the neighbor's petunias, that's on you, the parent. Similarly, if your platoon drives a tank over and wrecks some civilian's lawn, that's on you, the lieutenant. Also, if you are a CEO/manager/whatever and your employees are just the worst to other employees, that's on you, the manager/CEO person.

Did you wreck the neighbor's petunias yourself? No. But you were the responsible person in charge.

So, did T-dawg grope without restraint? I don't know, likely not. But he let it happen, repeatedly, for months.

Also, that whole 'grey-ball' thing.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#247

Post by softawre » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

strgcmc wrote: post #208

forgotpw2018 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to what the average college student was doing? No. It was a great use of time. We had a team, a goal, and a purpose. No stupider than being on mock trial or chess team. It's all pointless if you think about it too much, but that competition drove a ton of benefits to the school. IFC (Interfraternity counsil) ran most of the school events. Our attendance at official school functions like football games or pre…

> Of course it's not for everyone but that's not a reason to vilify it. Knitting is not for everyone, but by choosing not to be a knitter, I'm generally not missing out on social/career advancement opportunities (e.g. I apply for a job but I'm not in a frat, I'm more qualified than the next guy, but the next guy was a frat brother of the hiring manager, so guess who wins?). Even if I do choose to be a knitter, I'm ge…

Interesting that joining the military grants the same benefits and has the same risks you mention.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#248

Post by dang » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

msmith10101 wrote: post #128

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #34

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable.…

Two points: 1. You write as if Uber has solved the transportation problem sustainably. The end state of an Uber job is that it will pay less than minimum wage. Why? Because the barrier to entry is the same as most minimum wage jobs (assuming you have a car made in the last 10 years) and it is more desirable than minimum wage jobs (flexible hours, no boss). The pay may look better on paper, but when all the hidden cos…

We've seen many HN commenters lose their manners if not their minds when posting about Uber—this very thread is full of it. But "if your mom was raped in an Uber" is off the charts: uncivil and utterly gratuitous.

Had you posted other uncivil comments I'd ban you, but since you haven't, we'll treat it as an isolated lapse. Please don't do it again though. If you can't remain scrupulously respectful of the person you're replying to, please don't post.

If you'd read the HN guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart, we'd appreciate it. That spirit is intellectual curiosity: considering things for the pleasure of considering them. That doesn't fit with flamewars and is incompatible with personal attack.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#249

Post by Aunche » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #161

isoskeles wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand people arguing for the rule of law. Yes, we have laws, and they should be followed. Breaking them carries the risk of punishment. What I can't understand is the moral grandstanding, e.g. "What gave him the right?" Are taxicab medallions worth it? I never take it seriously when someone starts talking like this about the marriage between taxis and local governments, like it was some holy industry that…

> Are taxicab medallions worth it? I'm in favor of the rule of law. If I was in favor of the rule of law when it did good things and not when it did bad things (and I ready admit that the medallion system is one of the bad things), and wanted outside companies with private capital to ignore the rule of law to fix the bad things... I wouldn't be in favor of the rule of law at all. The ultimate question is who we choos…

It doesn't have to be black and white. The purpose of democracy is to reflect the will of the people, but it's not efficient. If more people agree with Uber than some antiquated laws, I have no problem with supporting Uber. Tesla also broke laws by selling their cars without going through a dealership, but I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

Re: Uber Co-Founder Travis Kalanick Said to Plan Sale of 29% of Stake

#250

Post by Helmet » Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #242

Helmet wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly did he or Uber do that is morally reprehensible? To me "morally reprehensible" implies something quite extreme, like, say, genocide, callous violent crime, rape, etc.

That's a pretty high bar. So then every single thing that pretty much every single monopolist has done is totally fine since, you know, it wasn't genocide? Uber did lots of, if not ethically grey, completely unethical (and unlawful) things. Least of which includes tracking regulators and government inspectors, and also surveillance on their users and celebrities based on the rides they'd take. That's not even countin…

> So then every single thing that pretty much every single monopolist has done is totally fine since, you know, it wasn't genocide?

What? I didn't say that it was "fine". I'm just trying to get a handle on the scope here. When I think of things that are morally reprehensible, I think of the things I mentioned in my post.

Clearly, I don't think Uber is there, so I disagree with the notion that they acted in a "morally reprehensible" way.

Do I think that they behaved unethically, even criminally so? Yes, I think that you can make a strong case for that.

Maybe I'm making a semantic argument? If so, I think I'm getting weary of our constant 24/7 media stream of outrage, and for that I apologize since that's neither here nor there...