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How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

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Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#31

Post by guskel »

debacle wrote: post #25
nickthemagicman wrote: post #8

Hypergamy, then, is ever present. The only thing that changes whether it is realized or not is the extent to which women are free to act on it. Hypergamy doesn’t necessarily guarantee an inequality in actual sexual encounters, but the more free that women are to act on it (and this is personal speculation) the more likely are there to be social norms and institutions favoring women, i.e. fault-free divorce, preferent…

Could you explain the leap from hypergamy to a female dominated society? If women seek out socially "superior" men, one would think that men would hold much of the power in society. Divorce and child custody laws aren't preferential by intent. They're simply archaic and/or very sticky. While I'm very much in favor of men's domestic rights, there are a lot of minefields when it comes to these issues which is I believe…

>Men, especially men of lower social status (or "attractiveness"), benefit from a glut of promiscuous women.

They don't because promiscuous women will continue to choose high status partners. More sex doesn't mean more sex for low status men.

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#32

Post by wolfgke »

hashkb wrote: post #20
wolfgke wrote: post #15

I am very skeptical when there is a claim of some "objective status [of a person]" (in this case in the model assumption "In the simulation, men make their mate selection decisions by minimizing over the age of their prospective partners, whereas women maximize over the status of the men in their accessible vicinity." - which requires that there is some "objective" status hierarchy of men). My counterclaim is that th…

"objective status" is usually "net worth" (aka "life score") which has many readily evident indicators like clothes, car, house, jet, private island, etc.

> "objective status" is usually "net worth" (aka "life score") which has many readily evident indicators like clothes, car, house, jet, private island, etc.

I disagree that "net worth" is a measure that is applied in all communities. For example bohemian societies were even somewhat proud not to have a lot of money, because the members saw themselves as artistic avant-garde that is not understood by "the ordinary world".

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#33

Post by fiveoak »

nailer wrote: post #21
wolfgke wrote: post #15

I am very skeptical when there is a claim of some "objective status [of a person]" (in this case in the model assumption "In the simulation, men make their mate selection decisions by minimizing over the age of their prospective partners, whereas women maximize over the status of the men in their accessible vicinity." - which requires that there is some "objective" status hierarchy of men). My counterclaim is that th…

Yes, in order to paint a picture, one must draw the odd brush stroke. I'm a privacy-conscious, non-car owning urbanite programmer, but I accept and am comfortable with that most people (particularly in the US for car ownership) regard having a Facebook account and owning a car as indicators of some minimum amount of social status. I love not having a car, and think Facebook is for people with lots of spare time, but…

Personally I think more people would be turned off by the fact that someone thinks they are a "loser" for having a Facebook account. Though it's a bit harder to quantify personality.

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#34

Post by Lazare »

"Why does it appear that the vast majority of women prefer the same small group of men?"

The chart doesn't show that. The chart shows that in surveys, women and men answer a survey with different average baselines for what "average" means. That's interesting, but it fundamentally tells you about how men and women answer surveys, not how they are attracted to the opposite gender.

What tells you their actual attraction is revealed preference: Who they date, and who they message. And the same OKCupid data source shows that women do message the same men they rate as "below average", whereas men actually overwhelmingly message the most attractive women. So right off the bat, this isn't a promising start: The author has interpreted the result backwards.

> translate this plot to IQ, and you have a world where the women thing 58 percent of men are brain damaged

No, it doesn't. It translates into a world where the women obviously do not act like they think this, and thus via revealed preferences, clearly do not think this. (But where the men do...)

> I began by wondering if a simple statistical model

Garbage in, garbage out. If you're reading the chart upside down, you're simple statistic model won't apply very well to real life.

Edit: According to the same data source OP is using "2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women" where women messages to men follow a much flatter response curve, with a peak right around the median. See https://theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0... In my view, that conclusively undermines OP's premise.

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#35

Post by zimablue »

debacle wrote: post #25
nickthemagicman wrote: post #8

Hypergamy, then, is ever present. The only thing that changes whether it is realized or not is the extent to which women are free to act on it. Hypergamy doesn’t necessarily guarantee an inequality in actual sexual encounters, but the more free that women are to act on it (and this is personal speculation) the more likely are there to be social norms and institutions favoring women, i.e. fault-free divorce, preferent…

Could you explain the leap from hypergamy to a female dominated society? If women seek out socially "superior" men, one would think that men would hold much of the power in society. Divorce and child custody laws aren't preferential by intent. They're simply archaic and/or very sticky. While I'm very much in favor of men's domestic rights, there are a lot of minefields when it comes to these issues which is I believe…

I don't subscribe to the philosophy that I think underlies this article but I can see that from their perspective slut shaming has advantages.

If you assume that society accepting more sex leads mostly to more sex and sexual partners for the 20%, and not the 80%, and a delay to "settling", then tolerance of lots of sex outside of marriage, from the perspective of the 80% means that instead of the twenty year old settling with you at twenty, you're in a sexual desert until at 40 she couldn't snag any of the presumably many members of the 20% who she slept with whilst auditioning and then settles with you.

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#36

Post by wheelie_boy »

nailer wrote: post #23
wheelie_boy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a great source. It also tells men to wear red and eat garlic.

It's a left wing source (which are regarded as more reputable on HN [see edit]) reporting a study from the University of Wales, specifically: > A 2010 study from the University of Wales Institute found that men pictured with a Silver Bentley Continental GT were perceived as way more attractive than those pictures with a Red Ford Fiesta ST. What is your issue with The Independent and/or The University of Wales? [edit]…

The issue with the independent as a source is that it is obviously designed to be consumed as entertainment rather than a serious look at the topic. You can cherry-pick studies that show something entertaining, but that doesn't tell you much about the current scientific consensus. It's like how news loves to report that popular indulgences protect against cancer (wine, chocolate, coffee, whatever)

Are you planning on starting to wear red and eat a lot of garlic in order to attract more women?

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#37

Post by phkahler »

"Hypergamy doesn’t necessarily guarantee an inequality in actual sexual encounters..."

I'm not sure what he means by inequality in sexual encounters. Every time a man gets a new partner, a woman does as well. The average number of encounters is the same for both sexes so long as the number of men and women is equal(ish).

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#38

Post by notyourday »

wheelie_boy wrote: post #36
nailer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a left wing source (which are regarded as more reputable on HN [see edit]) reporting a study from the University of Wales, specifically: > A 2010 study from the University of Wales Institute found that men pictured with a Silver Bentley Continental GT were perceived as way more attractive than those pictures with a Red Ford Fiesta ST. What is your issue with The Independent and/or The University of Wales? [edit]…

The issue with the independent as a source is that it is obviously designed to be consumed as entertainment rather than a serious look at the topic. You can cherry-pick studies that show something entertaining, but that doesn't tell you much about the current scientific consensus. It's like how news loves to report that popular indulgences protect against cancer (wine, chocolate, coffee, whatever) Are you planning on…

I will continue not to dress like a slob in vendor T-shirts and, eat in places other than Olive Garden or neighborhood chicken wings and pizza place and not live in a dump.

[Edit:]

Downvoting this is not going to change that your unwillingness to dress well, socialize with not tech geeks and project your desirability is what significantly limits your opportunities in attracting partners that you think you deserve.

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#39

Post by EGreg »

Lazare wrote: post #34

"Why does it appear that the vast majority of women prefer the same small group of men?" The chart doesn't show that. The chart shows that in surveys, women and men answer a survey with different average baselines for what "average" means. That's interesting, but it fundamentally tells you about how men and women answer surveys, not how they are attracted to the opposite gender. What tells you their actual attraction…

I have noticed this (as have many others).

Women are far more off in self-reporting their levels of attraction, arousal and the reasons for it.

Everything from studies done on bisexuality (women reported not being turned on by certain combinations but their genitals disagreed) to the OKCupid study cited above.

Men seem to be much better predictors and analyzers of what they are attracted to.

"What do women want" is a popular question ever since women were liberated.

I wish there were more studies done into this.

Re: How Does Technology Affect Which Men Women Choose?

#40

Post by ajuc »

phkahler wrote: post #37

"Hypergamy doesn’t necessarily guarantee an inequality in actual sexual encounters..." I'm not sure what he means by inequality in sexual encounters. Every time a man gets a new partner, a woman does as well. The average number of encounters is the same for both sexes so long as the number of men and women is equal(ish).

I think it's pretty obvious he means this:

   M1 -- W1
   M2 \- W2
   M3 -- W3
   M4 \- W4
   M5 -- W5
Yeah the averages are the same, by definition, but the distributions differ significantly.
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