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NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

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Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#291

Post by lr4444lr »

smallnamespace wrote: post #3

It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…

Compensation is not all about salary. Protected work hours, due process protection, job stability, and the honor of helping safeguard your country are motivators too.

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#292

Post by myaso »

caloon wrote: post #200
smallnamespace wrote: post #3

It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…

I think this does not tell the whole story. I will show you three countries that are outperforming the vast majority of countries and why: - Switzerland: Switzerland is undoubtedly one of the richest countries. I contribute this largely to the fact that they have a direct democracy. All laws are voted upon by the people which makes lobbying much harder. Who profits from lobbying? Almost exclusively BigCos. - Singapor…

The populations of these countries is significantly smaller than the US. Apples and oranges dude, things are always simpler when your bureaucracy doesn't have to cover 330m people -- you get a combinatorial explosion from all the additional interests and incentives with a larger population. Your points sound like they come from a bad econ textbook or a collation from poor reporting -- I know I heard them somewhere before.

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#293

Post by Shivetya »

smallnamespace wrote: post #3

It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…

there are over two million civil servants at the Federal level and combine that with nearly twenty million at state and local levels it is easy for people to think they spend too much on government which in turn prevents the ability of government to spend more money on salaries of those who are truly that valuable.

so the first step is to pare down civil employment so that the general populace feels that they are getting a good investment. government needs to start selling itself on being a good investment instead of a jobs program. its not hard for the general populace to get this idea when there is news all the time about bloated pensions and high debt in their cities and states because of government pensions.

so since the 60s the size of government at all levels has tripled where the population hasn't. part of the explosion and state and local levels is from Congress funneling money to hire people outside of the Federal level but instead at local. then when the funding dries up the jobs tend to stay anyway

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#294

Post by pm90 »

kodablah wrote: post #168
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you forgot one thing: * We need a powerful spy organization to compete on the world stage. This is an unpopular truth that people in our circles tend to forget. Rome was an influence solely due to the success of their military. What do you think will happen when ours becomes ineffective? And the NSA is a key part of our military. Intelligence is everything. I think it's good the overreach was exposed, but I was…

> We need a powerful spy organization to compete on the world stage I disagree or at least don't agree to the extent I might have in a more embattled time (i.e. any time in the past). I do agree intelligence serves the military well, I just don't agree with military intelligence scope growth at a time when military use is shrinking. I'm not sure history repeats itself here as much as perpetuates the justifications be…

A strong military is a must for global peace. Perhaps living in the west which has been war-free for so many decades its easy to forget. But go to Syria, or Libya and you will see what happens when, in the absence of a strong, centralized military command, factions duke it out with each other.

That being said: diplomacy is almost always better than war. But the ability to wage war must not be ignored.

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#295

Post by mathattack »

smallnamespace wrote: post #3

It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…

Specific to NSA, we're also in a time when their skills happen to be in enormous demand. Crypto is hot, having NSA/CIA on your resume is great for starting a security startup, and the math experts can reposition themselves as data scientists.

For a comparison, in the 90s Singapore tried targeting a rate of 2/3 of private salaries for their public servants. I haven't seen evidence that this is still a format target, but their public services are fantastic. (Of course it's a small island country, so hard to compare with larger places)

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#296

Post by pm90 »

mabbo wrote: post #33

When I was just about to graduate from University, I had an offer from Amazon on the way (yay internships) but not really in-hand yet, so I kept interviewing. One of the options was CSEC, Canada's NSA. The stark reality was that at Amazon, in 2 or 3 years I would be making double what CSEC was offering. Early career pay in one was end-career pay in the other. They seemed nice, and I suppose what they were doing felt…

It worked better for you and I'm glad to hear that. For some people, the stability of a Govt. job, the regularity of promotions, the lack of long term uncertainty and perhaps the absence of as high expectations makes it worthwhile to pursue a job that pays less.

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#297

Post by pm90 »

erikb wrote: post #263
pjc50 wrote: post #243

Another view: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/who-is-reality-... That was circulated with the comment "the risk is not so much people running to the Russians as people running to civil society - the NSA is not as popular as they think." The NSA, like much of the US system, demands absolute unconditional loyalty. Internal dissent is not possible. Taking dissent public will get you sent to prison where you…

replace prison with getting fired and you have the same in the industry.

Clearly you've never been to prison.

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#298

Post by auntienomen »

vidarh wrote: post #284
UncleEntity wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude got himself elected while being opposed by both political parties and the media...and he's a billionaire to boot.

He's a billionaire who has spent decades producing a return worse than if he'd just put the money he got from his dad in a fund. His fortune is not a demonstration of ability.

He's functionally rich, but we have no proof that he's really a billionaire. His finances are opaque. We don't know how indebted he is. We don't know what his revenues are. (Crain's reported a few months ago that Trump Org has historically overstated revenues by a factor of 10.)

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#299

Post by viridian »

vidarh wrote: post #284
UncleEntity wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude got himself elected while being opposed by both political parties and the media...and he's a billionaire to boot.

He's a billionaire who has spent decades producing a return worse than if he'd just put the money he got from his dad in a fund. His fortune is not a demonstration of ability.

This is speculation, and I personally don't find it to be true anymore. Funnily enough, I was on the opposite end of this argument as someone else on reddit about a year ago, when I cited an article from I think the daily beast, making the exact same point.

Among the flaws with the argument though, are an assumption that he could track the market (or that it would be a good idea), which is a flawed argument because Bogle didn't even start the first index until 1975, and until the 90's index funds had a reputation of being terrible. It was an undeserved reputation, but the idea of dumping hundreds of millions into an index was just unheard of.

Again, it's also an issue that there was no way to track the market prior, so what was he to do with the money from the age of 18-28? There's also the issue of the article I read assumes the absolute minimum value it could find for the value of Trump's brand.

While I think Trump valuing it in the billions is absurd, so is stickering it at $30 million, even before the election. It seems in bad faith to me to choose the weakest possible version of the thing you are arguing against, especially if that's the only possible way to make the math work out.

Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg

#300

Post by dbmikus »

pjc50 wrote: post #237
millstone wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presidential pay is not outrageous because those seeking the Presidency should be motivated by public service, not remuneration. Of course, the President doesn't really have bills. He or she doesn't exactly pay to rent the White House.

The President is billing the secret service to stay in Trump Tower.

millstone was saying that the president doesn't pay many bills. He can generate them, though.
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