Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some people are genuinely patriotic.
Would a genuinely patriotic person work for the NSA? I'd consider Snowden more patriotic than all of their current employees.
NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
141–150 of 547 posts
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some people are genuinely patriotic.
You'd think the genuinely patriotic would avoid working for the NSA, since it apparently results in exile to Russia.
Generally breaking the law and seeking to escape the consequences has always resulted in effective exile, throughout history. In fact, how could it not? Would you like the law to be suspended in this case, but not in the case of people leaking secrets to China? Where's the difference? Is it just that what you like should be an exception? You could argue it was patriotic to break the law, but working for the NSA hardly forced him to break the law, nor did it force him to avoid the consequences. He could have been like Rosa Parks who accepted the consequences. Admittedly, hers were smaller in magnitude, but there are other options than what Snowden took.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
To make things even more confusing the DOT is sometimes separate from the DMV, and sometimes not. In Georgia we have the DOT that handles road construction etc..., and the Department of Driver Services that handles drivers licenses.
To add to the alphabet soup you have DPS (Department of Public Safety) in Texas.
Washington DOL (Department of Licensing) checking in.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#144It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…
DOE national laboratories (LANL, LLNL, etc) must compete with private industry and large universities. They are successful at this because the DOE awards contracts for the management of each lab to outside entities such as Johnson Controls, University of California, Lockheed Martin, etc.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#145It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…
Not to worry. There are plenty of contractors in this space providing competitive salaries beyond government pay scales. NSA can still sub out much of its work to them and the taxpayers get to prop up more middlemen.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming $250/hr is a real example, that’s $470k/year. Is that really a problem? (Assuming 40h per week, 47 weeks per year because systematic staff shortage and EU-duration holidays because that’s what I’m used to).
The contracting company takes a significant cut of that.
For hard numbers, 80% markup of wages paid out is typical (at least for large contingency recruiters and IT contractors), though it can be higher.
$250/hr billed usually results in $125-140/hr in the contractor's pocket, and $110-125/hr for the place that sent them out.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you're going to invade privacy on a massive scale, you better be ready for the consequences. Like a job at Google/Facebook, where you'll continue invading privacy on a massive scale?
I like Google and Facebook. They provide a lot of value to a lot of people, invest in R&D, and contribute to the open source community. I've seen an uptick of negativity on HN lately, especially targeted at the big SV companies. Not intelligent criticism mind you, just basic trolling. For example your account appears to be 99% dedicated to shitting on SV companies.
Google and Facebook have been terrible for open source on the whole despite their contributions to some projects.
It is more difficult to run open source on your handset than it is on your desktop/laptop/server and Google wants it that way to ensure you are sucked into their ecosystem of data collection. And handsets outnumber PCs. Google is directly participating in the destruction of open source computing at the consumer level while distracting us with contributions to a few projects.
Facebook is attempting to kill all open communication protocols and force everyone to communicate through their platform with powerful network effects. Anything they have done for open source is dwarfed by the decades they have set us back in open communication and privacy.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#148> The brain drain has been so pronounced that at one gathering in 2016 of the agency’s elite hacking division, one individual raised the concern with Rogers directly. According to several people familiar with the exchange, Rogers disputed that there was any increase in attrition and told his employees that they should stop complaining and get back to work. Remember this. As someone who started their professional life…
I feel like many organizations, of which NSA is one example, make the mistake of putting technical program leads in charge of people. Leading people and motivating them to do their best work together requires a different skill set, and Rogers' response to the vocalized attrition concern suggests that he isn't capable of keeping people in the organization. I appreciate that he took time to talk with staff and take questions but he needs to become a better listener, or in other words ... work on his signals intelligence.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you're going to invade privacy on a massive scale, you better be ready for the consequences. Like a job at Google/Facebook, where you'll continue invading privacy on a massive scale?
I like Google and Facebook. They provide a lot of value to a lot of people, invest in R&D, and contribute to the open source community. I've seen an uptick of negativity on HN lately, especially targeted at the big SV companies. Not intelligent criticism mind you, just basic trolling. For example your account appears to be 99% dedicated to shitting on SV companies.
I like Google and Facebook. They provide a lot of value to a lot of people, invest in R&D, and contribute to the open source community.
The same can be said of most monopolies, like AT&T in the 70's , Bell Labs did top notch research, and the highly reliable phone network provided huge value to people and businesses alike. Although it did have high value, it also had a high cost to the consumer and few people want to go back to the days of paying $30/month for local phone service (plus $3.99 if you want to use touch tone), and spending $7 for a 10 minute cross country call.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#150There's a lot of blaming of external factors being injected into this discussion. Namely, government pay scales, and the Trump factor. But let's not forget the NSA's own self-inflicted wounds as well. Let's see, here's what I remember: * mission creep * overreach * LOVEINT * massive collection of bulk intelligence with dubious justifications * withholding information about 0 days it wanted to stockpile for its own us…
Yes, you forgot one thing:
* We need a powerful spy organization to compete on the world stage.
This is an unpopular truth that people in our circles tend to forget. Rome was an influence solely due to the success of their military. What do you think will happen when ours becomes ineffective?
And the NSA is a key part of our military. Intelligence is everything.
I think it's good the overreach was exposed, but I was worried about exactly this outcome.