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Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

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Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#131

Post by hueving »

titzer wrote: post #68
cantrip wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

> Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws. Sure, don't indict them, just please, please recognize them for exactly what they are: soulless, inhuman, profit maximizers that will take every inch afforded to them by the law (and sometimes more). You gotta watch them like a hawk and don't believe their statements to the press.

>soulless, inhuman, profit maximizers

Do you feel the same way about every person that takes an income deduction?

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#132

Post by dkural »

WalterBright wrote: post #109
Rescis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And if they were working on changing the law, or explicitly appealing to justice, that might carry some water. Google/corporations as whole regularly do spend their money on lobbying/political pursuits. This is rather often criticized however. >Your moral remedy for this is to vote, not to steal Are you conflating Google avoiding taxes as theft? If so, why is there a governmental right to corporate earnings, especia…

> Google/corporations as whole regularly do spend their money on lobbying/political pursuits. Larger corporations don't have much choice, they have to do it just to keep from getting run over by politicians.

By "run over", you surely mean getting to serve in the best interest of citizens, who elect those politicians. Instead of doing what's democratically decided, they'd rather legally bribe politicians to get the laws written to benefit their narrow interests. This is the very definition of private interest overriding and buying their way over public good.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#133

Post by mempko »

cantrip wrote: post #24
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

No, they would not pay $19.2B. If they could not use the tax loophole, most likely they would reduce their taxable profit by raising wages and R&D.

So closing the loophole will force companies to raise wages and invest in R&D, instead of keeping it in offshore accounts or giving to the government.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#134

Post by eitland »

thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

My economics teacher actually used the word loophole but explained to us:

You are allowed to use any loophole: if there is a tax break for doing x and you normally do y then you are allowed to do x to save tax.

You are not allowed to lie: If you didn't do y after all you should not pretend you did.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#136

Post by charlesdm »

glitcher wrote: post #45
charlesdm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, to me, the law has no spirit. The law having a spirit would mean we have to depend on ethical beliefs, and those can be wildly different for every person and/or company. What seems like an acceptable rate of taxation to pay for person A seems outrageous for B, and both rates would probably seem outrageous anyway to both those people if they have to pay those abroad (e.g. not in the home country of the main…

> the law has no spirit. The law having a spirit would mean we have to depend on ethical beliefs The law is also not a set of boolean logic statements. The "spirit" is just a way of acknowledging that language is imprecise at best, and often laws are poorly written to begin with.

So you're saying we should give politicians a pass for making low quality laws but punish (smart) citizens and corporations for finding a way around it?

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#137

Post by Pica_soO »

The morally reprehensible with this is not a cooperation acting in its own interest, the moral reprehensible is a cooperation not investing into possible risky ventures with these gained riches and instead using them to find zero days in the tax law - and bribing devs to put them there.

Innovation should be the only acceptable tax haven.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#138

Post by WalterBright »

dkural wrote: post #132
WalterBright wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google/corporations as whole regularly do spend their money on lobbying/political pursuits. Larger corporations don't have much choice, they have to do it just to keep from getting run over by politicians.

By "run over", you surely mean getting to serve in the best interest of citizens, who elect those politicians. Instead of doing what's democratically decided, they'd rather legally bribe politicians to get the laws written to benefit their narrow interests. This is the very definition of private interest overriding and buying their way over public good.

Power corrupts. Politicians are powerful. Large corporations are big targets; everyone wants a piece of that action.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#139

Post by chillacy »

natecavanaugh wrote: post #112
chillacy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morality isn't really absolute, so I could see people justifying it. One line of reasoning could go: 1. The letter of the law and the Right Thing aren't always the same thing (jury nullification, MLK) 2. You disagree with what the government spends tax money on 3. You think AI progress is a form of "doing good"

I feel, perhaps wrongly, that this is a non-sequitur. You can't state that morality isn't absolute, but then use an argument to justify why a moral absolute (The Right Thing) defends the proceeding statement. I agree with 1, sometimes agree with 2, but 3 just doesn't follow for me.

Makes sense to me:

1. I stated that morality isn't absolute 2. I provided a contradictory moral framework to the parent poster, leading to a different conclusion

The fact that you, me, and the parent poster all disagree about points 1-3 seem to hint that morality isn't absolute, no?

(Note I have not outlined my personal beliefs in my post, just posited one possible line of reasoning.)

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#140

Post by [deleted] »

dkural wrote: post #86
super-serial wrote: post #79

Bloomberg likes to write about how "tech companies do this" whenever it's something bad. The fact is all companies do this... it's well-known every industry is doing the same. Walmart, Exxon and Pfizer are just a few companies that tax-dodge just as much as Google. It's estimated $700 billion in taxes are dodged so singling out Google's $19 billion seems strange. https://americansfortaxfairness.org/corporate-tax-char…

Yes, but they don't have the "don't be evil" motto, or executives claiming some vague moral superiority to rest of the corporate world in "making the world a better place".

[deleted]
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