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Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

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Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#61

Post by kuschku »

wdn wrote: post #30

This is actually good thing. I don't know about you, I would rather Google keep more money and invest with it than handed the money to any government. What would the government do with your money? They most likely wasted it with 0 accountability. At least when Google failed, they go bully up. When government failed, they get rewarded with more money and resources.

> What would the government do with your money? They most likely wasted it with 0 accountability.

Hmm, good question.

They’d definitely never fund open source software https://prototypefund.de/en/, they’d never build new seawalls and more to protect against rising sea levels https://www.schleswig-holstein.de/DE/Landesregierung/V/_star..., they’d of course not invest more into schools and universities http://www.uni-kiel.de/pressemeldungen/index.php?pmid=2016-2..., nor into streets, canals, bridges and other infrastructure https://www.bmvi.de/SharedDocs/DE/Artikel/G/verkehrsinvestit... http://dipbt.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/18/127/1812764.pdf And they surely never would use it to pay off government debt https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-economy/german-ov...

Yeah, the government never releases any information on where the money is spent, and wastes it all https://www.bundeshaushalt-info.de/#/2016/soll/ausgaben/einz...

Luckily, Google is much better, they invest it all into society with no profit motive of their own, and always give us full reports where every cent goes.

(Just in case, /s)

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#62

Post by sbov »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #40
wdn wrote: post #30

This is actually good thing. I don't know about you, I would rather Google keep more money and invest with it than handed the money to any government. What would the government do with your money? They most likely wasted it with 0 accountability. At least when Google failed, they go bully up. When government failed, they get rewarded with more money and resources.

Google isn't using or investing this money. They're hiding it in a bank account in Bermuda. Whereas, if it was brought into the US, it would both get taxed (with which the government could help pay for things like your healthcare), but Google could also invest it or spend it here in the US, improving our economy.

IIRC companies with offshore profits in Bermuda invest it in stocks/bonds/etc, rather than having it sit there and do nothing.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#63

Post by Codestare »

DanBC wrote: post #13
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Laws are interpreted by the courts. Congress might write a law with some expectations. A well paid accountant and lawyer team might interpret the law differently. The company employing the team is trying to obey the law, so this isn't illegal tax evasion. But it is tax avoidance, and the use of loopholes may be found to be illegal by the courts, or the law might change to make it illegal. "Loophole" is just short han…

Sometimes I wonder if all those laws could just be distilled into a few universal truth laws or something.

The amount of legal gymnastics going on in court cases and things like this... It never ceases to amaze me. It all seems so inefficient.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#64

Post by SamReidHughes »

sbov wrote: post #62
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google isn't using or investing this money. They're hiding it in a bank account in Bermuda. Whereas, if it was brought into the US, it would both get taxed (with which the government could help pay for things like your healthcare), but Google could also invest it or spend it here in the US, improving our economy.

IIRC companies with offshore profits in Bermuda invest it in stocks/bonds/etc, rather than having it sit there and do nothing.

Yeah, they'd lose big time if they let it sit in an account for ten years.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#65

Post by rocqua »

Density wrote: post #21
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

I feel the revulsion is aimed mostly at our corrupt Congress that made this possible, but also at the corrupting companies who are benefiting.

Blame here lies with the Netherlands as well (I am Dutch). The politicians here want a nice "business establishment climate" (direct translation). The reasoning being that dodging taxes here gets us office jobs and perhaps whatever is left of the taxes.

The U.S. has threatened to put us on the list of tax havens, and we've made some moves to fix things, but apparently we are dragging our heels. According to this source [1] we talk the good talk, and behind the scenes do our very best to slow down as many of these new procedures as possible. Supposedly this is in the name of "Ensuring proper implementation".

The new government is going to abolish the tax on dividends. I don't know the details, but it's a controversial move. The opposition parties are really against it.

I guess a small country needs to make some moves to stay relevant.

[1] https://nos.nl/artikel/2206095-nederland-ligt-nog-altijd-dwa...

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#66

Post by yfufjcgdydfuc »

paulddraper wrote: post #60
compiler-guy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about you, but I tend to vote for politicians that enact my policy preferences.

You're probably also the sort of person that donates time/money to candidates whose positions align with yours, rather than their opponents.

I'm sure you guys are gonna love it when the majority votes to seperate the rich from their money. It's coming guys.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#67

Post by rocqua »

iaw wrote: post #2

Does anyone have more context on why Ireland's loophole will take so long to close? I suspect they're worried about externalities and retooling costs for entities obeying the spirit of tax law but it seems like they could put monetary thresholds that lower yearly rather than an all or nothing in 2020. e.g. Why not say "new tax code applies to any company doing >$1B worth of business in 2018, >$500M in 2019, and all c…

This source (in Dutch sadly) [1] might shed some light. In short a `coalition of the unwilling' consisting of The Netherlands, Ireland, Cyprus, Malta and Luxemburg are impeding tax reform. In public they talk the good talk. Behind the sense they stall under the guise 'Need to ensure proper implementation'.

[1] https://nos.nl/artikel/2206095-nederland-ligt-nog-altijd-dwa...

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#68

Post by titzer »

cantrip wrote: post #24
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

> Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

Sure, don't indict them, just please, please recognize them for exactly what they are: soulless, inhuman, profit maximizers that will take every inch afforded to them by the law (and sometimes more). You gotta watch them like a hawk and don't believe their statements to the press.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#69

Post by notliketherest »

saas_co_de wrote: post #33
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

It is not at all that cut and dried. Engaging in sham business activity for the specific purpose of tax avoidance is not legal. Many of these tax schemes could be declared invalid at the discretion of the IRS (or other governments - the EU already has in some cases). These companies are not complying with tax law. They are cheating and paying bribes or doing favors to get away with it, and everyone knows it.

LOL saas_co_de accuses Google of engaging in a sham business.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#70

Post by rifung »

wdn wrote: post #30

This is actually good thing. I don't know about you, I would rather Google keep more money and invest with it than handed the money to any government. What would the government do with your money? They most likely wasted it with 0 accountability. At least when Google failed, they go bully up. When government failed, they get rewarded with more money and resources.

> They most likely wasted it with 0 accountability.

This isn't true in the US; if the people are unhappy with the government they vote the leaders out of office.

> What would the government do with your money?

Fund things like education, pure research, the police, the fire department, and parks perhaps?

I work for Google and am happy we have a lot of money, but I don't understand the negativity towards what the government does.

> When government failed, they get rewarded with more money and resources.

This seems to happen at companies too? I have heard of people doing things not because they're the right thing to do but because it helps with promotion.

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