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Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

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Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#191

Post by rayiner »

philwelch wrote: post #164
rayiner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it's consensual doesn't mean it's not coerceive. > “What’s not O.K. about this scene is that it is so money- and power-dominated. It’s a problem because it’s an abuse of power. I would never do it again.” Can we imagine a society in which men with money and power in an industry don't use it to try and sleep with young women? Maybe that's desirable and maybe it's not. But society defines a wide range of…

> Can we imagine a society in which men with money and power ... don't use it to try and sleep with young women? I can imagine it, yeah. But it’s one of the less plausible utopias.

Economic coercion is unpleasant even when the transaction is consensual. (There is a whole movie about this: http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0107211). Maybe we can’t get rid of such conduct, but we sure can pass negative judgment on the people engaging in it.

Speaking of which, the social opprobrium gets dismissed as prudishness, but I suspect most readers would react differently to the article if everyone involved was economically and socially equal.

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#192

Post by QAPereo »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #149
QAPereo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you consent to go to the sex party, you consent to physical romantic activity, you consent to taking the drug knowing your context and what the drug will do, and then you consent to sex throughout the experience, it's hard to see how it's anything but consensual. Fortunately despite your sense of things, try that as a defense for rape and you’ll be in a deep, dark hole full of other rapists. Consent can be…

I'm fairly confident that consent is an adequate defense against the charge of rape. I completely agree that consent can be revoked or modified and that nobody should be passed around like a joint against their will. That's not what the article is describing though, at least not in my reading. The young woman who went to the party did consent, the whole way through, and didn't revoke or modify her consent until she d…

Or to rephrase, it took sobering from the cocktail of illegal drugs to realize what had happened. Or it took getting away from the people who allegedly raped her to, etc. The risk of coercion is real, and much of the reason for the jurisprudence around consent.

Give people enough drugs and put them under enough pressure, and you’ll get in some of their pants. You might even get something that sounds like consent, but is it really?

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#193

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Apocryphon wrote: post #140
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just high-rolling ones. Over the last few years I've been involved in the furniture and construction industries and their "decadent underbellies" are just as bad if not worse than what I've seen in tech, finance and elsewhere. According to many insiders I know in the concrete world, they have the most insane industry parties. Carpeting is pretty crazy too from what I've seen. It's not unique to any industry.

What cities are these interior home magnates based in?!?

All over but the parties are in North Carolina, Florida and Vegas mostly.

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#194

Post by eternalcode »

This is all real. I’ve been to some of the parties she mentioned. I hope that people read Brotopia and see that what Emily Chang is deriding isn’t Burning Man, renegades, or the like.

It’s how a predatory part of the startup population exploits these kinds of environments to use and hurt people.

I’ve gotten a lot of questions recently why I sort of dropped off the radar a few years ago in going to a lot of VC/founder rage scene. This is a big part of why. I don’t want me or the people I care about to be exposed to this.

And to be honest, I don’t know how to stop it.

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#195

Post by mannykannot »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #135
mannykannot wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis do you ignore the events that, as reported in the article, were not as consensual as you suggest here?

Can you explain further, please? Which events reported in the article were not consensual?

My mistake - on rereading the article, I see that while there was one example of a refusal of consent being ignored, the activity being reported is, in general, consensual.

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#196

Post by tarheeljason »

peterwwillis wrote: post #80

This article munges swinging, kink, and nuveau-hippie sensuality events into one big pile and claims that rich techies are "marginalizing" women, because they can't claim the women are being abused, because they "happen" to be completely in control of themselves and their choices. This is white-knightism shrouded in the pseudo-scandal of sex, with a silicon valley cherry on top. This is a tired old journalistic trope…

> This is white-knightism shrouded in ...

The author is a woman; not saying you didn't know that, but knights are traditionally men.

> The real causes are slew of issues that start and end in everyday human activity. If you want to help marginalized women, help them where they are being marginalized every day!

What sorts of activities, and where? I agree with all the rest of your points--just probing this one for the sake of completeness.

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#197

Post by mrep »

tathougies wrote: post #110
ImSkeptical wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you consent to go to the sex party, you consent to physical romantic activity, you consent to taking the drug knowing your context and what the drug will do, and then you consent to sex throughout the experience, it's hard to see how it's anything but consensual. If you have a colonoscopy done, the medication they give you will make it so you don't remember things or (I hope) feel things, but, my doctor to…

Sure... but the drugs in this case are illegal. The key words here are 'illegal drugs'. I believe it is still a crime (I'm guessing a felony) to distribute drugs at any party, sex or otherwise.

Yeah, well, many people here including myself think the "war on drugs" is one of the worst policies our government has ever taken which has been a complete and utter failure (tied with abstinence only education both of which enact the no use whatsoever policy which is a terrible strategy IMO).

I don't consider recreational drug use nor recreational sex to be a problem that social norms nor government should be involved in.

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#198

Post by ImSkeptical »

mannykannot wrote: post #195
ImSkeptical wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain further, please? Which events reported in the article were not consensual?

My mistake - on rereading the article, I see that while there was one example of a refusal of consent being ignored, the activity being reported is, in general, consensual.

No problem. Thanks for clarifying. I fully agree that any instance where a refusal is not respected is a problem.

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#199

Post by shalmanese »

yojo wrote: post #189
sushisource wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the thing that rubs me the wrong way is the article still feels like it's implying that it is common at the uppermost levels, but I suspect it's a very very small fraction of that very very small pie. Then again, I don't know what I don't know.

I was at a party with a mid tier VC partner as he described a hotel off sandhill where there was a set night of the week where the women at the bar were all prostitutes. You'd buy one a necklace at the jewelry shop around the corner, give her the jewelry and receipt, and take her up to your room. Afterwards she'd return it for cash (minus a small "restocking" fee). He seemed bewildered by the whole scene, but was ver…

Ah yes, the Rosewood Cougar Night: https://www.mercurynews.com/2012/09/07/bogus-report-of-ventu...

Re: Silicon Valley's Secretive, Orgiastic Side

#200

Post by dang »

tareqak wrote: post #56
dang wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do this. It's mechanical and detracts from good conversation, which is the purpose of the threads. I realize you're trying to help, but this is one of those areas where the help isn't helpful. It's closer to a single-purpose account, which we don't allow here. Community members should engage each other as human beings, not abstractions.

I understand. However, a lot of the time article titles are brief and/or misleading and/or click bait, but the article itself is insightful. I don't want to make the call for editorializing a title myself since I'm not a journalist, and I don't want project any bias I may or may not have. Frankly, I only do this because the Techmeme summary is anecdotally superior to the original article's title, but HN's character l…

That all makes sense. It's just not a good fit for HN, so I appreciate your willingness to stop.
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