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Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

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Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#71

Post by ucaetano »

cantrip wrote: post #24
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

They didn't pay $19.2B less taxes, they just didn't pay local income taxes on those $19.2B. They would still need to pay US taxes on those $19.2B if they repatriate it.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#72

Post by iaw »

rocqua wrote: post #67
iaw wrote: post #2

Does anyone have more context on why Ireland's loophole will take so long to close? I suspect they're worried about externalities and retooling costs for entities obeying the spirit of tax law but it seems like they could put monetary thresholds that lower yearly rather than an all or nothing in 2020. e.g. Why not say "new tax code applies to any company doing >$1B worth of business in 2018, >$500M in 2019, and all c…

This source (in Dutch sadly) [1] might shed some light. In short a `coalition of the unwilling' consisting of The Netherlands, Ireland, Cyprus, Malta and Luxemburg are impeding tax reform. In public they talk the good talk. Behind the sense they stall under the guise 'Need to ensure proper implementation'. [1] https://nos.nl/artikel/2206095-nederland-ligt-nog-altijd-dwa...

Thank you! That explains a lot about what's going on.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#73

Post by ucaetano »

titzer wrote: post #68
cantrip wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

> Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws. Sure, don't indict them, just please, please recognize them for exactly what they are: soulless, inhuman, profit maximizers that will take every inch afforded to them by the law (and sometimes more). You gotta watch them like a hawk and don't believe their statements to the press.

"please recognize them for exactly what they are: soulless, inhuman, profit maximizers that will take every inch afforded to them by the law"

Let me know when you invest your savings in a company that returns lower profits because they refuse to pay lower taxes, even if they legally could.

And let me know when you find a tax deduction that could save you money, but you decide to not take the deduction and pay more taxes.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#74

Post by joefarish »

baal80spam wrote: post #7
finkin1 wrote: post #3

"regulatory filings show that Google shielded €15.9 billion (about $19.2 billion) in 2016 using the popular "Dutch Sandwich" tax trick, saving it about $3.7 billion in taxes."

Must've been hell of a sandwich.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16029384

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#75

Post by DerpyBaby123 »

basseq wrote: post #28
burke wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations literally have a legal obligation to attempt to pay as little tax as is legally possible (really, to maximize shareholder value, which might even mean paying less tax than is legally possible, as long as the expected value of the gambit is positive). The issue is not corporations taking advantage of it, the issue is that we have a system where an actor is obligated to optimize for certain variables withi…

Exactly this. The term is "fiduciary responsibility". Their directors could be sued for paying unnecessary tax, against which "doing the right thing" is not a legitimate defense. ("Right" in that statement having different moral and legal meanings.) Or, put another way, it would have been illegal for them to have paid that tax.

>it would have been illegal

[Citation needed]

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#76

Post by c22 »

cantrip wrote: post #24
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

> Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government?

I've done it. I also let the shopkeepers make "mistaken" change when I visited Nepal. Sometimes I tip $5 even when I buy less than $25 worth of food at a restaurant. Maybe I'm a moron, but I think of money as a tool and when I can afford it I am happy to help others accomplish their goals. In the case of taxes many of the government's goals are aligned with mine so I'm even happier to contribute.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#77

Post by andrewchambers »

paulus_magnus2 wrote: post #25

tl;dr. Being an asshole isn't a crime. Analogy to put this in perspective: at your daughter' school, there's a collection for a new electronic whiteboard. Everyone pays their share. Except due to an old / obscure rule families below poverty line are exempt. One rich parent figured out how to hide all their income and qualify. There are different ethical standards for corporations & individuals. Companies get to navig…

Your analogy doesn't hold too well. To be more accurate

1. The collection would have to be a large percentage of all wealth, not a fixed and small sum.

2. A caveat being your child might not even use the whiteboard, and not paying means you get kicked out of school.

3. By 'hiding', you mean something legal.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#78

Post by pfarnsworth »

> Google is "using tax loopholes that obey the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it."

Absolute hogwash. So minimizing your taxes is somehow going against the "spirit" of tax law? What should the spirit of tax law be? Pay as much taxes as possible?

I would love to see what deductions this blogger takes and see if he complies with the "spirit" of tax law. Typical socialist/communist viewpoint that anything that a rich company does is somehow immoral.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#79

Post by super-serial »

Bloomberg likes to write about how "tech companies do this" whenever it's something bad.

The fact is all companies do this... it's well-known every industry is doing the same. Walmart, Exxon and Pfizer are just a few companies that tax-dodge just as much as Google. It's estimated $700 billion in taxes are dodged so singling out Google's $19 billion seems strange.

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/corporate-tax-chartbook-...

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#80

Post by legulere »

thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

That’s like claiming that you there’s no such thing as hacking someone. The exploit just follows the rules of the code. And code has pretty clear-cut semantics, while law is up to interpretation to a certain point.

Laws are buggy like code and using loopholes is just hacking the law.

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