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Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

keybee.it

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Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#51
post #43

I'm confused by this statement: > "Keybee is simple and clear because all the letters are always available (no hidden keys) and they all have the same size" Checking my iPhone and my wife's Android phone, as well as an old Windows Phone I have in a drawer, all of the letters of the alphabet are available on the default board, none are hidden, and they are all the same size as each other on each respective keyboard. A…

I think that statement was referencing other alternative keyboards, not standard qwerty

Yeah, I'm starting to think it's a language barrier issue and nothing deceptive per se.

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#52
Interesting! I'm glad to see so many people are willing to learn a new keyboard layout. I was looking at alternative keyboard layout for touch-screens for a while, and ended up coding my own. It's based on two-thumbs input and the layout is designed for alternating between them. There are only 5 buttons on each side/thumb so you don't really miss. You can swipe for special keys like enter, backspace, symbols, emoji etc, and so you should have the whole input spectrum available.

I've used it for over a year now. My friends beat me when their dictionary is on. But without it, I'm around 30% faster. For writing commands, code or formulas - it's superior, and that's why I like it.

It took me about 3 weeks to get on par with a normal dictionary-less QUERTY. Learning new layouts like this takes really long as it has to go into your muscle memory before you feel comfortable. I guess that's why we're still stuck with QUERTY (which was designed to slow down typing on mechanical typewriters).

It might be worth checking out for the technically-inclined. It's open source and as far as I know - patent free. See https://github.com/Adellica/Thumbkeyboard.

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#53

Writing anything on modern touchscreen smartphones is so frustrating. I think the problem is that the touchscreen is always going to be an inferior interface to a physical button. I remember what it was like using PDAs and smartphones with actual physical keys. After a brief period of adjustment to a new device, I was soon typing without any mistakes. It was such a low-friction transfer of my thoughts to digital form…

You might be interested in the physical keyboard add-on module "Moto Mods" for the Motorola Z series https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keyboard-mod-a-physical-k...

Yay, QWERTY! QWERTY is being used for legacy reasons ("because we've always had QWERTY"), because its the widely available standard (including on computers not owned by the user meaning users need to ask or configure other computers are swap back and forth between layouts), and because people don't want to relearn a new layout. The original reason why QWERTY was desired is due to typewriters getting stuck less quick because the movement wasn't efficient. That was intentional, a legacy from the 19th century!

Programmer Dvorak or Colemak are alternatives to QWERTY but they suffer from a lack of widespread adoption. Keyboard shortcuts might still be awkward, you're still going to meet a massive learning curve (less with Colemak though since it deviates only 6 key positions from QWERTY). See this post on SO for an in depth, anecdotal comparison between the 3 [2]. A new keyboard layout is going to suffer from these issues as well. Most of these are chicken-egg problems. But that doesn't mean it isn't better in the long run.

Without having used Keybee some things to keep in mind, apart from not being programmer/sysadmin friendly, are that some users use a smartphone with one hand whilst others use two. Another one seems that the screen is being used more than with QWERTY.

I've sticked to SwiftKey because it can support multiple dictionaries, and I like that there's a lot of themes available. However they got bought by Microsoft recently. I also got Hacker Keyboard installed, so if I'm using CLI (local via Termux or SSH) I can easily use common UNIX keybinds. So I'm certainly interested trying something better, even if there's a learning curve attached and even if its only going to be usable during touchscreen usage.

The keyboard you linked seems akin to what I had on a Nokia N900 / Nokia N950 or a Nokia Communicator. Its keys are small, it adds weight/space or takes time to pull in/out. Plus, you're stuck to a Motorola Z (Motorola doesn't give software updates for long). Take for example the iPad Pro case which includes a keyboard. Its not a bad keyboard given its size but even that layout isn't standard given the key spaces are different (small shift for example!). Both very much not ideal IMO. Another thing one can consider is a Bluetooth keyboard for situations where one ends up having to type a lot, or short, quick bursts such as during keynote taking f.e. student during seminar. I'd say that is a very viable use case. Disadvantage is these use batteries which get eventually depleted and cannot be recharged. Plus the insecurities of Bluetooth being wireless & sniffable.

Also important in these comparisons is how people use their keyboards (touchscreen and physical). Which exact layout version do they use? Do they swipe on their touchscreen? How long have they used layout X or Y? For example, I never really got into swiping even though it has been available for a decade. And finally, there's voice dictation which has taken some ground past years.

[1] https://computer.howstuffworks.com/question458.htm

[2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23078626/are-alternative...

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. There is no difference between qwerty and keybee in term of instantness. The difference is between other alternative layouts which claims to be quicker even if they do not shows all the letters (lack of instantness). Qwerty as Keybee shows all the letters at the same size. But Keybee can show them two times bigger than qwerty thanks to the hex structure.

That's still a non-answer. I'm going to chalk it up to a language barrier as I don't want to assume bad faith on your part.

I already answered at your question. There's no difference between qwerty and keybee for your specific argument. Also the other user answered to you.

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#56
post #19

I just enabled it. I'm still a bit slow but so far it seems there's less fat fingering. I'm in the smaller phones camp so I guess fat fingering is a larger issue for me than it is for most who prefer the big flagship phones.

Problem with smaller phones is the hexagon shaped keyboard takes up more space than the standard AOSP (even with predictions and number row) or Hacker Keyboard. Which matters more on smaller phones. Agreed on this seemingly causing less fat fingering, but good prediction-based keyboards which have users swiping take fat fingering into account.

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a flipped version for left-handed typing then?

No need to be flipped because the Keybee arrangement starts from the center of the keyboard. So it is optimized for left and right handed at the same time.

I thought you did not understand but rethinking I think Marco is mostly right, actually.

If I am a right hand user, the right part of my keyboard is covered by my hand, and is easier to be used. I've seen this in keyboard which don't have any keys on a 1/4th circle on the bottom right of the screen.

If I am a left hand user, the left part of my keyboard is covered by my hand and is easier to be used. But the left part of the keyboard has less important keys than the right part.

Essentially, a mirror of the keyboard would be more optimal for left hand users. Although the issue is less important than on say QWERTY. Because the amount of space on the outer rings (most strain) is still the same for left and right hand users. And that's Marco's point.

The amount of space your fingers can move back is smaller than the amount of space they can reach up. Going back puts more strain on the fingers. (Anecdotal experience.) (EDIT: and the arm, as well.)

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#58
post #41

Writing anything on modern touchscreen smartphones is so frustrating. I think the problem is that the touchscreen is always going to be an inferior interface to a physical button. I remember what it was like using PDAs and smartphones with actual physical keys. After a brief period of adjustment to a new device, I was soon typing without any mistakes. It was such a low-friction transfer of my thoughts to digital form…

Did you try swipe? I can't really use it personally because I switch between different languages too often, but it's practical if you're only writing in one language.

Swipe-based touch keyboards don't work for me. Compared to touch-tapping, I find I have worse accuracy. I also find them much more frustrating, because correcting a swipe mistake is a lot more expensive compared to tap mistake. At least when tapping, I get steady and immediate feedback when spelling out a word, and I can fix a mistake quickly just using backspace and without much thought, and then carry on as usual. But with the swipe keyboards I tried, I find out about mistakes only after I spelled out a whole word, and at that point it's really awkward to fix without breaking my flow. Often what happens in my case is that all the autosuggestions are way off the mark.

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#59
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to be flipped because the Keybee arrangement starts from the center of the keyboard. So it is optimized for left and right handed at the same time.

I thought you did not understand but rethinking I think Marco is mostly right, actually. If I am a right hand user, the right part of my keyboard is covered by my hand, and is easier to be used. I've seen this in keyboard which don't have any keys on a 1/4th circle on the bottom right of the screen. If I am a left hand user, the left part of my keyboard is covered by my hand and is easier to be used. But the left par…

Perfect..!!!

Re: Keybee: a new keyboard layout designed specifically for touchscreen devices

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentence itself implies libre, not being patent-encumbered. Donating a great innovation to humanity means making the knowledge freely available for use. It does not mean using the knowledge to create a product and then making this product freely available.

thank you, random stranger, for sharing your gnu/extremism. while i am in no way defending software patents (which I don't like at all), i find the full-frontal attack attitude that you and many other gnu/zealots exhibit towards random strangers on the internet so infuriating that i am writing this comment here to let you know that people like you are exactly what prevents me (and many others) from getting involved i…

My comment has absolutely nothing to do with preaching free software or even trying to push people to make their software available under a free license. You could even take out the word "libre" from my comment, if it irks you that much. The meaning is the same. And the meaning is simply my interpretation of that sentence. After having read that sentence, the last thing I expected was for it to be patented and I was so sure of that, that I did also feel it was dishonest to put that sentence on the webpage.

Yes, I generally would prefer for people to publish their software as libre, especially if it does not interfere with their way of making money as is the case here, yes, I was somewhat annoyed that I could not actually try this keyboard out, since yes, I am enough of a free software zealot for my personal use that I only have F-Droid installed and yes, I do actually find it unacceptable for a keyboard app on Android to not at least allow its source code to be inspected, as once enabled it can read everything you type from personal conversations down to passwords and Android does fuckall to prevent a keyboard app from just sending all of that to somewhere on the internet, but none of that was expressed in my previous comment.

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