Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This process is designed to have a weapon be discharged. Unfortunately, as a US civilian you need to be smart about de-escalating encounters with underpaid rage-monster cops with something close to legal immunity. Your goal should be to avoid injury or death until you can get to a lawyer.
The police, particularly in the US, seem to be quite fond of shooting people who are laying face down on the ground, or otherwise clearly not a threat. It isn't so clear how we are expected to act in an effort to reach the goal of avoiding death during a police encounter.
LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
521–530 of 864 posts
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#522What bothers me about these situations is just the entire idea of "SWAT" as practiced. You are a cop with 5+ other cops. You all pull your guns. Someone comes to the door, groggy in the middle of the night. They may or may not understand you are police. They may or may not believe you are the police. They are definitely confused/frightened/angry by your presence. We now begin the dice rolling process. Since every pol…
What is the appropriate response in this kind of situation?
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
Police were responding, in this case, to a call made by someone claiming to be armed and holding his family hostage. You do not assume a call is fraudulent in a situation like that. You assume the worst. What happened to the civilian is a tragedy. He should not have been killed. But the person most at fault here is the one who lied and called in SWAT in the first place.
> But the person most at fault here is the one who lied and called in SWAT in the first place. It completely mystifies me how people can think that people with guns were justified in fatally shooting someone with no guns . That kind of thing should just never happen, either subdue them or let them get away, why are you shooting them? What could they possibly have done, short of ran to the kitchen to get a knife and t…
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This process is designed to have a weapon be discharged. Unfortunately, as a US civilian you need to be smart about de-escalating encounters with underpaid rage-monster cops with something close to legal immunity. Your goal should be to avoid injury or death until you can get to a lawyer.
If you are a cop in this situation, not the lead officer, a grunt among other grunts. You are told the basic situation is that shots have been fired and women and children are in danger...as are you and your team. There is an ARMED individual in the house. Your police training also tells you there is a split second between you and one of your team getting killed as well. Your team members are also husbands and father…
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#525I'm glad this person is an adult located in the U.S. Hopefully this makes for swift and severe justice. I'm sad to learn the victim was the father of two children. And I'm mad that police are shooting people, innocent or not, based on vague gestures that sorta, maybe, if you look at it from the right angle, looks a little threatening. I said yesterday that, as a hearing-impaired person, if I'm ever in a position wher…
> And I'm mad that police are shooting people, innocent or not, based on vague gestures that sorta, maybe, if you look at it from the right angle, looks a little threatening. I can understand that, but I recommend caution when it comes to judgement. Combat is every bit as technical as system architecture, and I think it requires related experience to judge fairly. Movies prepare you to critique a fighter about as wel…
then there is the notion that the LEO chose to take a job with an oath to protect and serve US, the society, the people. and here this person is putting their own lifes value so much higher than others that they are unwilling to even wait to visually identify an arm prior to shooting. that is wrong. that is wrong on so many levels. the onus is always on the police officers to manage the situation, and what we have here is a culture of police violence encourage by IMPUNITY. The cop get's acquitted or never goes to trial, getting paid administrative leave or whatever... the family loses a person, never to roam the earth again, and all due to some shitty training and false premises being taught.
I have had it up to here with the notion that the civilian populace, including deaf and blind people, are supposed to accomodate a police force that will shoot them so casually for, and in fact are even unable to stay alive when complying with orders, as in the case of several recent high profile cases.
Make no mistake, the "swatter" has committed a crime of violence and should do hard time, but it's high time we stood up against this culture of police WICKEDNESS and reformed it.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
The overuse of SWAT is ridiculous, but sending them into a shots fired / hostage / bodies on the ground situation is entirely appropriate. And no different from most other developed countries. If you go into a house in Germany, shoot someone, and then threaten to shoot everyone else, do you really think you’re going to get an officer or two casually knocking on the door without weapons at the ready?
German cops have fired a total of 52 bullets in 2016, which killed 11 people. I think it’s very likely that situation would have had a different outcome.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
An unarmed man was shot and killed in his own doorway. The officer that shot him could not have seen a weapon, because there was no weapon. That is all the information that is necessary to make a determination not only that he should be charged with murder, but convicted of it.
I know, why even bother with a trial? We've all read the news accounts, let's string him up! /s So due process is one concern here, but also, my concern here is more about the fucked up system we have. Is it reasonable to create a broken system, heavily arm cops, train them poorly, get them hyped up, and send them off with bad intel into (what they believe is) an incredibly high-stakes / high-stress environment, and…
Look, in this situation they're armed, covered, and have a strong numerical advantage etc. etc. etc. and you're offering a panic defense. If I was to rely on my anxiety level to govern my conduct I'd have killed 30 or 40 people by now.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#528Earlier quoted context omitted.
and being woken in the middle of the night, wearing boxers or pajamas with hands in the air, better pray that they don't happen to slip down causing you to instinctively "reach for your waistband" in order to hitch them up
This seems to me to be what happened in the Daniel Shaver case, who was drunk and in his pajamas when police (responding to a report of a brandished gun being spotted in his motel room window) confronted him. He was facedown and yelled at for ~4 minutes before being shot when officers mistook him pulling up his waistband for reaching for a weapon: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/us/police-shooting-vid... The of…
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#529Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, that’s not how due process works. You don’t know what happened or what the evidence is. And from your responses, I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that you have no law enforcement experience or training. Sorry, but the outrage you feel upon reading a few news stories online is vastly insufficient to imprison another human. You’re talking about simple mob justice, that’s all.
The issue is that the officer is not facing a trial. No chance for due process because the people are not bringing a case, so it doesn't matter what the evidence is. He is on administrative leave.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A single anonymous source on a non-911 number without corroborating reports of gunfire is not sufficient cause to shoot a man on his porch. No one is arguing that. > Here's an idea -- fly a drone around the house and look in some windows. Knock on a neighbors door and ask if they heard a gunshot. That sounds great. Until there is an actual hostage situation, and police waste their time doing this and a hostage is k…
This isn't the movies, cops should never be kicking down the door in a hostage situation. They should be guarding the perimeter and trying to talk to the perpetrator.