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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#451

Post by gonational »

notwedtm wrote: post #403
dclowd9901 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, plenty of people go into the military. I call bullshit. And frankly the only people I want wearing the badge are ones who are willing to sacrifice themselves, even if it’s a much smaller number of officers being paid much more and are much more skilled.

The military offers a much larger compensation package for your employment/service. As a LEO, you get a paycheck, and a pension. As a soldier, you get room & board, food, transportation (mostly), and all your necessities issued to you. For some people, those are worth the potential of death, where as the LEO compensation isn't. Lastly, there is a large group of people who enlist due to patriotic beliefs (i.e. "Doing…

While in the e.g., Army, you are likely away from your family and friends for the better part of 4 years, and if you perform much better than average, you’ll be an E4 late in your third year, earning $25k/yr.

Meanwhile, cops are paid north of $50k/yr; they get to go home to their families every night, and compared to IED-laden roads and AK-47s, their risks are very minor.

Also, saying the military pays for room and board is like saying prison pays for room and board; it’s not exactly the room and board you would choose, and you’re not allowed to just leave when you choose.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#452

Post by anigbrowl »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #211
StavrosK wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the person most at fault here is the one who lied and called in SWAT in the first place. It completely mystifies me how people can think that people with guns were justified in fatally shooting someone with no guns . That kind of thing should just never happen, either subdue them or let them get away, why are you shooting them? What could they possibly have done, short of ran to the kitchen to get a knife and t…

The obvious answer is: because you think they ARE armed, and if you wait until they start shooting at you, it’s too late.

We have 1 possibly-armed-with-a-handgun guy of unknown intent and ability on a porch, vs 5+ SWAT officers who are definitely trained in shooting people, are in cover, have body armor, rifles (presumably good ones with scopes and whatever else), and high-powered lights trained on the house.

So yeah, I would say they should wait until a suspect starts shooting because they have an overwhelming tactical advantage. Yes, that's a risk because the guy on the porch might be John Wick or Jason Bourne or the Terminator, but most people, even most professional criminals, are not expert marksmen under any circumstances, let alone ones where they're at a large tactical disadvantage.

Next time you meet a cop socially, ask them if criminals are smart or supervillains 'like in the movies' The cop will laugh and regale you with stories of how dumb and inept most criminals are. Police know perfectly well that most people don't have a clue, are easily intimidated by police, and not super-skilled. Sure, they have to consider the small number of dangerous exceptions, but overstating the risk factors is also a really convenient way to get off the hook for their own poor firing discipline.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#453

Post by varjag »

lb1lf wrote: post #296
varjag wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway, reservists can keep their assault rifles home. Once a guy in our neighbourhood decided to clean his AG-3 on the porch, triggering armed police response in the area. This being Norway of course, no shots were fired and the situation cleared up. Otherwise, you can buy pretty much anything non-automatic when you have a hunting or sports license. Neither is hard to obtain. The circulation is regulated but stil…

-Reservists and the home guard no longer store weapons or ammunition at home; that practice ended a few years ago as the AG3 (HK G3 made under licence in Norway) was the weapon of choice for reservists to kill their spouses, then themselves (what we call honor killings when committed by non-native Norwegians) Additionally, it was no secret who was a member of the home guard, so there were numerous cases of homes bein…

Don't own any handguns but I think you can have several as long as they are different class/caliber. I.e. a .22, 9mm and a .45.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#454

Post by r3bl »

Karunamon wrote: post #444
sodosopa wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a distraction to focus on the SWAT team instead of the gamer at this point. Gamer pulled the trigger as soon as the call was made.

As far as I’m concerned, they’re both equally liable. If this was a case of mistaken identity rather than a malicious call, we’d all be calling for the cop’s head even though it would have been the same error.

A caller just wasted the time of the SWAT unit.

A SWAT unit shot an innocent man.

It is very difficult for me to place both parties as "equally liable". Sure, there should be a punishment for the caller, but he didn't kill an innocent man and it sure as hell wasn't his intention to. He just didn't think of the possible consequence. In no way, shape or form does that equal to "actually put a bullet in someone innocent", which is exactly what that officer did.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#455

Post by fredophile »

dba7dba wrote: post #446
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you don't get to be a cop. Or a soldier.

A soldier is in direct danger of losing life/limb only upto 25 years old so. As you go up higher in rank, your exposure to danger goes down exponentially. And that is usually when an active war is going on. Even when an active war is on, those in charge have learned to limit the length of time a soldier spends in warzone to 1 year. Like US did in Vietnam war. For cop in certain areas, they are exposed to loving life/…

I don't think you've ever been a soldier. Sure the average private or corporal is in their twenties but when I was in Afghanistan the average NCO was in their thirties. Even higher ranked people with office jobs weren't immune from danger. Rocket attacks on KAF and the FOBs was a regular occurrence.

Soldiers can easily get a lot more than one year of combat time. How many full time soldiers only do a single tour in Iraq or Afghanistan?

The stats show policing isn't that dangerous. Most cops never need to draw their weapons. If you want to see a dangerous job look at crab fishing.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#456

Post by djsumdog »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #345
ivanhoe wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to approach the situation prepared for the worst case scenario. Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. There's also a huge problem with the whole that macho, gun loving, power-tripping culture, it just makes things worse, wrong profile of people gets that kind of job.

The worst case scenario? I’m pretty sure that is the scenario that played out. Police should be prepared to die wearing the badge, with civilian casualty being an absolute last resort. It works this way for the military. I can’t fathom why it doesn’t work this way with police.

> It works this way for the military. I can’t fathom why it doesn’t work this way with police.

The military is part of the state's monopoly on violence. We dress it up today and make it seem all noble, and selectively forget all the torture at Abu Ghraib, drop weapons [1], the famous song about the "Little Haji Girl," .. and the list goes on.

The military get away with much more murder and torture than police. Many people I knew who came back from Iraq hate Iraqis; they have to justify their hatred because they've killed so many of them.

In the words of Bill Hicks, "I've been watching all these Congressional hearings and all these military guys and all the pundits going, "The esprit de corps will be affected, and we are such a mora …" Excuse me, but aren't you all a bunch of fucking hired killers? Shut up! You are thugs, and when we need you to go blow the fuck out of a nation of little brown people, we'll let you know."

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqB2a1K9dBw

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#457

Post by StavrosK »

reificator wrote: post #371
StavrosK wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the disagreement here lies in that people think "given that the police is likely to kill someone, the person who called in an innocent man is a murderer", and I agree. However, I contend that the police should not be likely to kill someone, exactly because they might be killing innocent people. The police are the ones with guns and ostensible training.

> However, I contend that the police should not be likely to kill someone I'm not arguing that they should. I'm saying that they are, and having knowledge that they are makes the one calling in the threat seriously in the wrong. I can't stress enough, the caller's twitter handle is SWauTistic. They know full well what they're doing.

We completely agree on this.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#458

Post by krapp »

r3bl wrote: post #454
Karunamon wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I’m concerned, they’re both equally liable. If this was a case of mistaken identity rather than a malicious call, we’d all be calling for the cop’s head even though it would have been the same error.

A caller just wasted the time of the SWAT unit. A SWAT unit shot an innocent man. It is very difficult for me to place both parties as "equally liable". Sure, there should be a punishment for the caller, but he didn't kill an innocent man and it sure as hell wasn't his intention to. He just didn't think of the possible consequence. In no way, shape or form does that equal to "actually put a bullet in someone innocent…

>but he didn't kill an innocent man and it sure as hell wasn't his intention to. He just didn't think of the possible consequence.

How do you know his intent, or what he thought?

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#459

Post by r3bl »

enraged_camel wrote: post #435
enraged_camel wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray. Even if you aren’t religious. I’m not religious and I would definitely pray.

I'm laughing at the downvotes. The OP asked what to do if getting swatted and I offered a genuine opinion, apparently this isn't allowed on HN. ;)

> Pray. Even if you aren’t religious.

For what? For the SWAT team to do a better job at the scene? For their training to be better in such situations? For 350 million to not prank call the police?

Any of these three solutions are better than praying to god to someone who is not religious, and yet, none of them will produce any result what so ever.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#460

Post by djsumdog »

dba7dba wrote: post #446
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you don't get to be a cop. Or a soldier.

A soldier is in direct danger of losing life/limb only upto 25 years old so. As you go up higher in rank, your exposure to danger goes down exponentially. And that is usually when an active war is going on. Even when an active war is on, those in charge have learned to limit the length of time a soldier spends in warzone to 1 year. Like US did in Vietnam war. For cop in certain areas, they are exposed to loving life/…

> Even when an active war is on, those in charge have learned to limit the length of time a soldier spends in warzone to 1 year. Like US did in Vietnam war.

This is absolutely false. It may have been true in Vietnam, but that has to do more with there being a near infinite source of soldiers (the draft) and also an insane amount of soldiers being killed an maimed and unable to take a 2nd term.

In Afghanistan and Iraq, I knew people who were serving five or six tours.

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