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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#381

Post by rdiddly »

rdiddly wrote: post #332
computerex wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea this answer is total and utter crap. We aren't asking law enforcement to be super human, we want them to be educated and competent. The fact that the U.S is both lacking in training and competence is a well established fact. Law enforcement in the United States has proven itself to lack training and discipline by firing on innocent unarmed citizens many many times. I don't believe any other country in the world h…

Actual solution or alternative: You and tons more people like you, should apply for jobs in law enforcement, work your way up into leadership, and change policy.

Yeah, I thought not.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#382

Post by dclowd9901 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #328
throwaway7312 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know what it is? You seem quite confident. Americans have 101 guns per 100 citizens. Finns have 34.2 guns per 100 citizens. Icelanders have 30.3 guns per 100 citizens. America has 110x the murder rate than Finland has. America has 13,000x the murder rate Iceland has. Whatever the cause is, 3x the guns ≠ 110x the murder rate (or 13,000x the murder rate). A more interesting comparison might be to examine countrie…

> We know it's not guns. So what's the cause? You misspelled “I want to believe it’s not guns.” I am from Ukraine originally. Poverty is the reason there. So yeah let’s have that proper safety net instead. But when we are talking about this, let’s break it down a bit between different types of violence where guns are used: police shooting suspects, gang violence, run of the mill murder, and acts of terrorism. You don…

I would go further to say that the second amendment failed so miserably that if you shoot a police officer in self defense (such as in the case of the article), it is game over for you. You either won’t see the light of day again or be put to death. They’ve essentially made acting against the establishment _so illegal_ you’d be crazy to even try.

By merely being engaged by a police officer, you’re dead.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#383

Post by nafizh »

It seems like the police is trying to shift the blame 100% on the caller. He might be a terrible human being who deserves punishment, but indeed the sole responsibility lies with the police who pulled the trigger.

But yeah, instead of training for more people skills, let us give them more military-grade weapons.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#384

Post by cheschire »

TillE wrote: post #189
dboreham wrote: post #123

I don't see anyone here asking this: how many people are police killing who are not 100% innocent bystanders like in this case, but still didn't need to be killed? I mean, we're all outraged because they shot "some dude in his PJs" but doesn't that imply they must be shooting 10, 100x as many folks where we'd be thinking "well, he shouldn't have had a knife in his hand" or "he shouldn't have been high"? Where I live,…

> "well, he shouldn't have had a knife in his hand" Right. German cops, for example, are trained to shoot people in the leg in that scenario. It happens quite frequently and successfully. American cops seem like they're all on a hair trigger to kill at the slightest hint of danger, rather than as a last resort when they're truly threatened.

American police and military are trained to shoot for the largest target area, center of mass, as this is the least likely area to have unintentional results.

Some examples of unintentional results are: 1) Missing. 2) Hitting another person. 3) Maming, or otherwise causing grievous injury such as shooting in the leg and hitting an artery on accident when you didn't intend to kill the target.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#385

Post by dclowd9901 »

williamscales wrote: post #370
dclowd9901 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst case scenario? I’m pretty sure that is the scenario that played out. Police should be prepared to die wearing the badge, with civilian casualty being an absolute last resort. It works this way for the military. I can’t fathom why it doesn’t work this way with police.

Try finding enough people willing to do that. I'm not willing to die with the badge on, so I will never be a police officer. But I suspect that if you ask police officers the same question, many of them are also not truly willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. I'm not really sure what to do about this. Surely many of those who are willing to make that sacrifice are already police officers or other first responders.

Yet, plenty of people go into the military. I call bullshit. And frankly the only people I want wearing the badge are ones who are willing to sacrifice themselves, even if it’s a much smaller number of officers being paid much more and are much more skilled.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#386

Post by dingbat »

danso wrote: post #378
dingbat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and being woken in the middle of the night, wearing boxers or pajamas with hands in the air, better pray that they don't happen to slip down causing you to instinctively "reach for your waistband" in order to hitch them up

This seems to me to be what happened in the Daniel Shaver case, who was drunk and in his pajamas when police (responding to a report of a brandished gun being spotted in his motel room window) confronted him. He was facedown and yelled at for ~4 minutes before being shot when officers mistook him pulling up his waistband for reaching for a weapon: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/us/police-shooting-vid... The of…

if i recall correctly Shaver was not wearing pjs, he was wearing shorts. but yes, he appeared to pull up his shorts which were being dragged down because he was being forced to crawl on his hands and knees.

i would bet that almost everyone being in such a position, or standing at their front door in front of their neighbors, who felt their bottom falling down, would instinctively reach down without thinking.

some points to note about that incident -

a) he had the pellet gun as part of his job as an exterminator, even if he was careless in demonstrating how he used it to shoot birds for pest control

b) think about how easily the officers could have gone to the wrong hotel room; you, me or anyone random could've been in the room next door to Shaver and been treated the same (and probably wouldve reacted the same), even if we'd just poked out head outside our room to see what the heck was going on

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#387

Post by wott »

gaius wrote: post #281
varjag wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow police in the rest of developed world are able to resist shooting a great deal of suspects on the spot. Find what's different in America and fix it.

Find what's different in America and fix it The average American spends several hours a week watching TV and movies where the rule-breaking shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later cop is the hero. Probably most people who join the police see themselves in that role. Here in the UK our cop shows are like Midsomer Murders. Most episodes don’t even feature a gun...

> Here in the UK our cop shows are like Midsomer Murders. Most episodes don’t even feature a gun...

But your rusty gardening tools seem as efficient and they enhance murdering creativity :-)

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#388

Post by Analemma_ »

dba7dba wrote: post #363
dclowd9901 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst case scenario? I’m pretty sure that is the scenario that played out. Police should be prepared to die wearing the badge, with civilian casualty being an absolute last resort. It works this way for the military. I can’t fathom why it doesn’t work this way with police.

Police should be prepared to die wearing the badge, with civilian casualty being an absolute last resort. I disagree. No one should be prepared to die while working a job, a job that one will have all his life.

Then pick a different job. People aren't required to be police officers.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#389

Post by figgis »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #349
DanBC wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

132 police died while on duty in 2016. There are 750,000 police officers in the US.

So? In 2015, there were 51,548 assaults against law enforcement officers, resulting in 14,453 injuries.

This is a misleading point. Assaulting an officer ranges from an elbow to the rib during an arrest to beating the crap out of them.

We have roughly 900,000 police officers. A total of 135 police officers were killed in duty in 2016.[0] And 14,453 injuries. We point these people towards danger daily and in a single year only 1 in every 62 of those officers will be 'injured'. I would say that's an acceptable risk for the job if the alternative is the circumvention of due process.

[0] - http://time.com/4619689/police-officers-killed-2016/

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#390

Post by Pica_soO »

millzlane wrote: post #372
dingbat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and being woken in the middle of the night, wearing boxers or pajamas with hands in the air, better pray that they don't happen to slip down causing you to instinctively "reach for your waistband" in order to hitch them up

Funny, this happens often in my neighborhood where people wear pants too big for their waists with no belts.

Oh, yeah, thats definitely not racism right there, blaming hip hop fashion for a shooting percentage. Carry on.
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