Live data from Hacker News

Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

media.ccc.de

91–100 of 129 posts

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it seems your average American doesn't even know the difference between Socialism and Communism and on top of that uses "Socialism" entirely wrong all the time.

Socialism is used wrong also by self proclaimed socialists; modern day social democracies are not exactly pure socialists either. Socialism can’t coexist with Communism its economic theory is not compatible with either the political or economic theories behind communism.

No true scottsman...

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. I'm amazed at how many people I've met who claim to be Marxist but haven't ever read Hegel.

You really don’t need to go anywhere so complicated; this is literally a high school history exam question “name the philosophical framework adopted by Communist Russia (since technically this predates the USSR) which was based on the works of Marx Engels and co.” But I would agree with your statement I never met a self proclaimed Marxist that actually read the entire body of works behind it; those who do are usually…

such anecdote.. such generalize experiences.. wow.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#93
post #51
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a typical low blow, akin to throwing all right-wing under the guise of Franco, the Weimar republic, or some other right-wing system. Communism has been implemented on small scale. One notable example in Spain [1], problem is that any large political system eventually turns out to be either authoritarian or ineffective or sabotaged (I leave the guess by whom as an exercise to the reader). Its also been applied in…

Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger because trickle-down effects actually exist. Living standards are rising globally incredibly quickly. Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entir…

This is an experiment with 1 trial. What evidence do you have that another system with the same technological advances would not produce the same or better living standards? (none!)

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#94
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Come on, we can do better here than the tired old “not real communism” argument. it just means that we didn't have the right data, or perhaps we need a new analysis Ah yes, always followed by “it will be different next time”. How many millions more have to die?

I think it's fair to call all attempts so far "not reall communism". But you don't have to conclude "real communism would work". You can also conclude "real communism seems unimplementable". It is, after all, a social order that was created purely on paper and from theoretical arguments, which is ridiculous. That activity gives you something to try, but certainly not a fixed solution that you just need to implement a…

The original intention was the communist revolution would take over the whole world at once. it was never intended/feasible to be a sole communist nation surrounded by a sea of capitalist nations, but they couldn't admit that failure and pressed on anyway.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. I'm amazed at how many people I've met who claim to be Marxist but haven't ever read Hegel.

You really don’t need to go anywhere so complicated; this is literally a high school history exam question “name the philosophical framework adopted by Communist Russia (since technically this predates the USSR) which was based on the works of Marx Engels and co.” But I would agree with your statement I never met a self proclaimed Marxist that actually read the entire body of works behind it; those who do are usually…

> “name the philosophical framework adopted by Communist Russia (since technically this predates the USSR) which was based on the works of Marx Engels and co.”

Marxism-Leninism? [1]

Honestly, Dialectic Materialism[2] can be summarized as "the idea that ideas and real-life influence each other" and Historical Materialism[3] is the thesis that history has been shaped mainly by its material reality.

[1]: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism

[2]: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Dialectical_materialism

[3]: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Historical_materialism

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#96
post #93
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger because trickle-down effects actually exist. Living standards are rising globally incredibly quickly. Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entir…

This is an experiment with 1 trial. What evidence do you have that another system with the same technological advances would not produce the same or better living standards? (none!)

East vs West Germany, North vs South Korea, even Cuba vs Florida. There have been plenty of experiments.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Not a true Scotsman, eh? The same argument can be applied to the current capitalist system, too. Some libertarians in fact do so when saying that the problems we see with capitalism don't actually arise from free markets but from precisely the state intervention in those markets that's supposedly meant to alleviate these problems. > and the most…

There is no such thing as pure capitalism either, because private property cannot exist without all the elaborate state machinery that libertarians love to hate: a court system, contract law, a police force, an army, and the taxes to support it. All this stuff exists to create the illusion of such a thing as pure private property. Neither pure communism or pure capitalism are things that could exist in the real world…

Rejecting "a court system, contract law, a police force, an army" sounds like an anarchist's point of view, and while libertarian anarchists (or anarcho-capitalists) exist, equating them with libertarians in general approaches the limit of how ignorant I can believe a non-troll to be.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#98
post #96
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an experiment with 1 trial. What evidence do you have that another system with the same technological advances would not produce the same or better living standards? (none!)

East vs West Germany, North vs South Korea, even Cuba vs Florida. There have been plenty of experiments.

China vs. Taiwan and Hong Kong.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#99
post #64

Some comments as watching video... Corporation as AI is good analogy. But as with many, he stops short and repeatedly just says corporations. Please, every large group entity - governmental bodies, unions, non-profits - is an AI. And with/in those groups (and corporations) are also competing AIs. Comments about weaponized social media: It is odd that we in the West don't want to acknowledge / know / accept the US gov…

But corporation collections as paperclip maximizers is a bad analogy. Corporations generally produce something large numbers of people want (be it solar panels or cars in his example), whereas a paperclip maximizer AI produces paperclips that only it wants, destroying everything in its path.

The risk of a paperclip maximiser isn't that the paperclip maximiser wants paperclips, but that the limits of almost any reasonable goal become strongly perverse when one approaches the limits of feasible computation.

Corporations are different because there are very strong diminishing returns on scale when it comes to how smart they can be.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#100
post #51
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a typical low blow, akin to throwing all right-wing under the guise of Franco, the Weimar republic, or some other right-wing system. Communism has been implemented on small scale. One notable example in Spain [1], problem is that any large political system eventually turns out to be either authoritarian or ineffective or sabotaged (I leave the guess by whom as an exercise to the reader). Its also been applied in…

Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger because trickle-down effects actually exist. Living standards are rising globally incredibly quickly. Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entir…

> Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger

There are a ton of efforts, both from state-actors[1], NGOs[2] and individuals, seeking to eradicate extreme poverty worldwide. It is not apparent that it is "fixing itself with capitalism" or that any of the previous actors think it is going to happen.

> trickle-down effects actually exist

Citation Needed because trickle-down economics has been shown to increase inequality and not increase the quality of life for those in poverty.

> Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entire approach is doomed to be a race to the bottom.

Why is it a lie?

[1]: http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/development/data/oecd-internati...

[2]: https://data.oecd.org/drf/grants-by-private-agencies-and-ngo...

Post reply on HN