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Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

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Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#151

Post by Daishiman »

rajacombinator wrote: post #105
aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

I’d wager if such an unimportant comment would have a serious effect on her prospects working for you, her prospects weren’t that good to begin with.

It's not an unimportant comment at all.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#152

Post by codingdave »

lnanek2 wrote: post #129
codingdave wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm someone who has a big say in your career prospects. No, you have a big say in their progression within one specific organization. Their career prospects overall are up to them. Frankly, I will quit a boss who acts like they own my career. (Separately: Your undergrad degree is what you make of it. There is no worthless education, only worthless application of that education into your life.)

I've seen plenty of bosses who will try to improve someone even if they know they are leaving in a couple years, telling people to make sure to get on LinkedIn so they can rate them up, etc.. There's much less loyalty to companies nowadays, but people do have loyalty to their superior if the superior is setting them up for success no matter what. So I think a good boss does have some traction on a person's career, no…

True -- but GP's comment didn't sound like a mentoring relationship to me. He was saying he expects people to watch what they say around him, implying that open and transparent communication is not part of their culture. Had he said that he took the person aside later and talked through office communications and culture, THAT would sound like mentoring.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#154

Post by bokstavkjeks »

greenrd wrote: post #97
abiox wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not stated why they felt that way. i'm a guy and have thought that at times myself... for me, mostly because it seems (from this angle) that MBA types can get a great/better salary and have a FAR higher income/status ceiling, all while seemingly having a much easier life than engineers (grass is always greener :P).

I can't relate to that at all. Having to stay awake in even more boring meetings? Not being able to write code any more? Why would any programmer want that - unless they didn't actually enjoy their job?

Some people want to be a business partner more than an employee. Not that that's impossible as a software engineer, but it may be easier from a different starting point.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#155

Post by alecco »

misterbowfinger wrote: post #42
aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

> And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake, don't SAY that shit around me, I'm someone who has a big say in your career prospects." Did you tell her that? Why or why not? Seems like a really good opportunity for a teachable moment.

That could backfire. It's low probability but it could carry big consequences.

The current climate of accusations is not good for managers.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#156

Post by bayonetz »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #132

A good article, which should probably be read alongside the one about "vulnerability" by Leah Fessler [1] that it is responding to. Mining the links, I sniff an insidious confusion about what it means show "vulnerabilty". On its face, it sounds like "exposing your weaknesses". But in pro-vulnerability literature (e.g. [2]), it seems more like "displaying honesty and courage". Those are strengths, not weakensses. An e…

Related article by Fessler about creating a "user manual" for her colleagues to understand her better: https://qz.com/1046131/writing-a-user-manual-at-work-makes-t...

Such a cool concept. So much more efficient than the opaque, black-box methods we use to understand and navigate our colleagues in this discretion-oriented, anti-vulnerability-oriented status quo we currently live in. Ironically, I'd say the efficiency of it actually makes it more humanizing.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#157

Post by bayonetz »

strictnein wrote: post #8

Honestly, this is a long article, but it's worth reading. It's written somewhat in response to another article by a millennial wanting her older colleagues to share more. Part of that is quoted in this article, including this passage: > Most of my new colleagues are at least 10 years my senior. Several of them have children, spouses, and mortgages. They are adults. Comparatively, I am a child. This really hits home,…

>Honestly, this is a long article, but it's worth reading.

So sad that we have to be long-form-writing apologists!

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#158

Post by Strudelnoggin »

scarface74 wrote: post #102
greenrd wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a tech lead, it's actually easier for you to admit weaknesses, since your subordinates will be happy if you arrange things such that their job satisfaction is high, regardless of how much or little technical work you do. For a front-line engineer it's more dangerous, particularly if there is a perception (even if unfair) of a discrepancy between how they presented themselves at interview, and how they are presenti…

The only times I've been closed to getting fired weren't because of technical skills. I don't believe I've ever come up against a technical challenge that I couldn't solve by putting enough man hours into it. But, the one thing that I've gotten a couple of "improvement plans" about were surrounding my lack of emotional intelligence and attitude. Those nine years between 2008-2016 were just as much about improving my…

God, this hits home for me. I have suspicions that my oversharing and fraternization with my co-workers has hurt me and continues to hurt me, in the eyes of my superiors. I have recently been given more responsibility over a coworker whom I am consistently seen hanging out with and sharing with. However rather than take that as a indication that things are moving in the right direction, I'm starting to feel like I missed an official promotion because I look like I can't use discretion. At least I'm starting to see this stuff now. I can't be filling in the downtime at work with sharing at work with coworkers if I want to be seen as management 'material'. All this and I am also just passed year 12.

And trying to do a review for a guy you talk to on a regular basis and come up with a way to bring him 'in line' with the level your boss expects you to evaluate him at? Not fun. Not to mention these evals were revealed to me in confidence to be complete horseshit BY MY OWN BOSS. Anyway I digress.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#159

Post by joewee »

EADGBE wrote: post #153
joewee wrote: post #138

One piece of advice, never ever ever bring work from your previous or current employer to a job interview. I’ve had to reject very good candidates because of this.

You don't want to see a portfolio?

The exception may be a artist, but I don’t want to see a portfolio of proprietary software or documents from a previous employer.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#160

Post by greenrd »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #128
greenrd wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's the way you tell them. With engineers, a little explicitness goes a long way, and will generally be accepted - unless you're being patronising and telling them something they already know. So try saying "I'm not saying this to gain any sympathy or anything like that, but I had a similar experience, which was... and what it taught me / how it made me stronger was..." I mean that's kind of a stilted template…

Well, to be fair, I never really stopped doing it. But I do handle things differently. I still don't think that makes it fair to assume the woman in the article wasn't doing something similar. We don't have her side of the story. We have someone else's version of events. Also: A man telling a woman that her observations about her own experiences aren't valid and she just must be doing it wrong has a not nice name bec…

If you read my comment carefully, I didn't say you "must" be doing it wrong. I said "maybe".

Statistically, men are more likely to react to tales of woe by trying to solve the actual problem, whereas women are likely to react by (first) offering sympathy, so I was just being a typical man, not doing anything wrong.

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