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High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

discussions.apple.com

221–230 of 340 posts

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking into VoidLinux very much for the reasons you listed. So far, from my playing with void on a VM, it feels like the "OpenBSD" of the Linux world. I love OpenBSD (using it for pf Firewall, DNS and DHCP at work) but I seriously doubt how it'd work in a laptop. My concerns are power consumption, and drivers. Even VoidLinux with the latest linux kernel gives me trouble to enable audio. I really want my laptop to ha…

Why not Ubuntu?

Because I want a BSD-like simplicity/minimalism with a Linux kernel(for its extensive driver support for laptops). Ubuntu is just not that.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#222
post #198
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice blanket statement, i don’t think you speak for any die hard Apple fans here. I’m a die hard fan, and I still use all their native apps. I’m not sure how you say they are bloated, notes is probably the best in class of notes apps out there. The calendars and reminder features are stripped down to a fault, but still useful because it just works for me. The stability of the software is getting worse, but with any i…

> people are 10x more sensetive than other platforms that have all the same issues. To be fair it's because they charge 3-4x what other platforms charge (the ones that do) and use to have a slogan saying "It just works". People paid the Apple tax because they didnt have to deal with these issues and now they do and still pay the Apple tax.

>> they charge 3-4x what other platforms charge

Wait... where is this 3-4x number coming from? Are there any examples?

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#223
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice blanket statement, i don’t think you speak for any die hard Apple fans here. I’m a die hard fan, and I still use all their native apps. I’m not sure how you say they are bloated, notes is probably the best in class of notes apps out there. The calendars and reminder features are stripped down to a fault, but still useful because it just works for me. The stability of the software is getting worse, but with any i…

> I’m not sure how you say they are bloated Evidently you're not an iTunes user. But agreed on the fact that most Apple applications are pretty decent, with the exception of iTunes (bloated) and Pages (not bloated enough).

iTunes is bloated, but there's no good replacement. And it's less bloated than it used to be, since they removed iPhone app management.

I do hope they have a skunkworks project to rewrite the whole thing from scratch, though. It could really use it.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is ridiculous. You're seriously taking a 4 post thread on apple support forums as the sky is falling? I use high Sierra daily on my 2013 mbp and have had 0 freezes.

> You're seriously taking a 4 post thread on apple support forums ... Err... that thread seems to have 21+ pages (at the time of writing this comment), including many "Me too" style of comments. Doesn't seem like an isolated problem. :/

The parent is confused by the same thing I was, which is on first load the page only shows 3 "helpful" comments, and you have to click a link to see all 21 pages.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#225

Apple went from building fantastically reliable software on beautiful, powerful devices, to... Well, this. Even die hard apple fans don't use their built in apps for calendar, music, mail, or really anything, because the design is so bloated. Their hardware performance lags the rest of the market at their price point, and skirt the lines of programmed obsolescence. And now apparently their major OS updates go out wit…

I've been an apple fan since the '70's. My first Mac was a Mac Plus. At that point, I truly was a diehard fan because I viewed it as 10X better than the PC world. The engineering was amazing, both for hardware and software. It did have practical problems based mostly on not enough memory being available, but I forgave it because it was so darn beautiful in so many ways. I would tell everyone who would listen to get a…

Are they really unreliable? I use a 2013 macbook pro (that I bought refurbished mind you) and it works just as well as the day that I bought it, except that the mute key doesn't work. The 2015 mbpr I used at my previous employer seemed just as sturdy.

I also abused an iphone 5s for years until an upgrade to an iphone 7 earlier this year. Seems like a pretty stable device.

I don't see these problems. Now I'm stuck with a thinkpad at work that has garbage battery life and an infuriating track pad. Every Android phone also turned out to be a turd (Galaxy S3, Moto X). Now that I have a file browser on iOS I don't think I'll ever go back- especially when you consider that Apple is basically the only company in the big 5 that at least publicly goes to bat for your privacy.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#226

I blame strongly Apple’s inability to make developer-focused tools easy and unbreakable . For instance: - I do not file bugs anymore . Their system is absurdly complex, requiring a lot of information up front, and is then 100% opaque. Bugs stay marked New and untouched for months or longer, only to be closed with Duplicate or some other lame status (with absolutely no way to search or read the apparently-similar bug…

> I do not file bugs anymore.

I've filed a small amount but stopped pretty quickly because the web app where you report bugs is just horrible. I literally ended up making 2 bug reports the first time, 1 for the bug I wanted to report and then another bug report for the web app. I can't even be bothered to check whether those issues have been resolved, but I don't even care anymore at this point.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fix: stop the annual release cycle. There isn't a customer demand for it, and it’s a hassle for basically everyone. The issues in 10.12.x get fixed with 10.13, but 10.13 has the same amount of different issues, so it’s a wash. There’s no stable version anymore.

100% agree with this. I can't figure out what they even think the yearly releases schedule is buying for them (particularly on the macOS side) when it's obvious it's costing them on the QC front. The best strategy seems to be to treat the current release as a beta, and hang back at least one release. If you upgrade to 10.(n-1) just before 10.n is released, you're on a release that's had about two years to mature. Tho…

That's been my strategy for the past few update cycles. I just upgraded to Sierra this past July. I'll upgrade to High Sierra next July. Since another major release of iOS seems imminent after the "battery issue" I think I'll hold off on that upgrade for a little while longer, too. Latest and greatest doesn't hold the same appeal to me as reliability.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#228
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been an apple fan since the '70's. My first Mac was a Mac Plus. At that point, I truly was a diehard fan because I viewed it as 10X better than the PC world. The engineering was amazing, both for hardware and software. It did have practical problems based mostly on not enough memory being available, but I forgave it because it was so darn beautiful in so many ways. I would tell everyone who would listen to get a…

Are they really unreliable? I use a 2013 macbook pro (that I bought refurbished mind you) and it works just as well as the day that I bought it, except that the mute key doesn't work. The 2015 mbpr I used at my previous employer seemed just as sturdy. I also abused an iphone 5s for years until an upgrade to an iphone 7 earlier this year. Seems like a pretty stable device. I don't see these problems. Now I'm stuck wit…

Apple hardware still seems excellent to me. It's the software that's unreliable.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#229

I blame strongly Apple’s inability to make developer-focused tools easy and unbreakable . For instance: - I do not file bugs anymore . Their system is absurdly complex, requiring a lot of information up front, and is then 100% opaque. Bugs stay marked New and untouched for months or longer, only to be closed with Duplicate or some other lame status (with absolutely no way to search or read the apparently-similar bug…

> I do not file bugs anymore

Then your problems won't get fixed.

> Their system is absurdly complex, requiring a lot of information up front

Not really. Everything it asks for is useful information. It used to have a bunch of fields that, depending on the bug, you sometimes ended up just writing N/A in, they recently re-did the bug reporter interface so all of those free-form text areas are now a single text area pre-filled with a template, which makes it a lot easier to trim out an irrelevant section. And it's a lot faster than it used to be as well.

> Bugs stay marked New and untouched for months or longer, only to be closed with Duplicate or some other lame status

When was the last time you actually filed a bug? My dupes are generally marked as such in less than a week (presumably whenever the next bug review session happens, which is usually on a weekly cadence), and many times they get marked as such within one day. I can't remember the last time I had a non-brand-new bug get marked as a dupe.

> with absolutely no way to search or read the apparently-similar bug reports to understand the issue and resolution

This is true. You can, however, post a comment on your dupe asking for an update.

Radar is mostly a black hole. This is just something you have to deal with. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't file bugs. If nobody files a bug report, then the bug will never get fixed. And I've lost track of the number of bug reports I've filed that have actually been fixed as a result of my report (e.g. I get asked to confirm the fix later).

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> For instance, an ordinary build seems to spawn background tasks that frequently display old errors as new errors, only to mysteriously produce a “Successful” build while still showing all those older errors

Those errors aren't from the build. Those errors are from the "live issues" feature. Xcode does have an issue where a successful build often doesn't actually clear out the "live issues", but you don't need to clean to get rid of them! Just modify the line in question (e.g. add and delete a space), that will clear out the issue and force it to re-perform the "live issues" compilation check. I do hope that some day Xcode will get better at handling this. Perhaps you should file a bug report.

> I can’t stop using Xcode 8.x due to other developer-unfriendly decisions Apple makes, such as ending support for SDKs or changing compilers in backward-incompatible ways, where using the Xcode 8.x suite (faults and all) is unavoidable.

Why do you need an older SDK? The only reason I can think off the top of my head to need the iOS 10 SDK instead of iOS 11 is if you're developing an iOS app, using a launch storyboard, and aren't prepared to support the iPhone X. I do wish Apple had a way to opt out of iPhone X support with Xcode 9 (e.g. an Info.plist key), but honestly, it's been months at this point since Xcode 9 came out, you should just spend the effort to support iPhone X. If you actually need the iOS 10 SDK for another reason, I'm quite curious as to what it is.

What are you referring to regarding "changing compilers in backward-incompatible ways"? I have to assume you mean the Swift compiler, but the transition from 3.1 to 3.2 is pretty painless. In most cases it should just work with perhaps a few warnings thrown in. I only know of a few edge cases surrounding Substring that are actually backwards-incompatible, but those are easy to fix.

Re: High Sierra macOS freezing and stops

#230

I blame strongly Apple’s inability to make developer-focused tools easy and unbreakable . For instance: - I do not file bugs anymore . Their system is absurdly complex, requiring a lot of information up front, and is then 100% opaque. Bugs stay marked New and untouched for months or longer, only to be closed with Duplicate or some other lame status (with absolutely no way to search or read the apparently-similar bug…

> I do not file bugs anymore. I've filed a small amount but stopped pretty quickly because the web app where you report bugs is just horrible. I literally ended up making 2 bug reports the first time, 1 for the bug I wanted to report and then another bug report for the web app. I can't even be bothered to check whether those issues have been resolved, but I don't even care anymore at this point.

How long ago was this? They revamped their external-facing bug reporter fairly recently.
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