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The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

nytimes.com

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Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#151

Post by marcosdumay »

coliveira wrote: post #127
vanderZwan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations... I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0]. Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad a…

> typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" This is pure ancap, "Austrian school" ideology. They define regulation as bad by definition, because supposedly it goes against "freedom". This works as a clutch so that if you say anything bad against capitalism they will retort "it is regulation", even thought nobody ever saw (and never will see) an economic system without laws and regulations.

Well, you can't just blame capitalism for problems happening with government granted monopolies. You must at a minimum get some evidence that it isn't the monopoly causing the problem.

And because modern economies are to a large part composed of government granted monopolies, with almost all problems being in that part¹, nearly all "capitalism is bad" commentary is simply bullshit.

1 - Both governments tend to grant monopolies on problematic areas, and anything that a government grant a monopoly on becomes problematic. So, it can hardly be different.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#152

Post by nwah1 »

This one is interesting because it deals with a young short seller, Chris Drose, that caused a lot of share price decline in a stock I once held, likewise by writing an article for SeekingAlpha.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/27/business/drug...

This is the other stock he did that to, but his article was retracted... of course, only after the stock tanked huge, and continued to tank more afterwards. He must have made a fortune.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3189718-bearish-sa-article-que...

I am amazed by how effective that is, and how he was able to get away with that.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#153

Post by iak8god »

StreamBright wrote: post #59
21 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in US money speaks: Between 2006 and 2015, Purdue and other painkiller producers, along with their associated nonprofits, spent nearly nine hundred million dollars on lobbying and political contributions—eight times what the gun lobby spent during that period. And the revolving door: He had also enlisted Rudolph Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, and his associate Bernard Kerik to preëmpt any government…

Not exactly. If money speaks than the cannabis would be generally accessible in every state because it brings in huge amount of tax to government and income for companies.

OpenSecrets.org Influence & Lobbying / Lobbying / Industry: Pharmaceuticals/Health Products

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/indusclient.php?id=h04

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#154

Post by quantumofmalice »

geofft wrote: post #128
quantumofmalice wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect there to continue to be multi-ethnic cities and neighborhoods within cities, which is a fairly common occurrence throughout history, particular in capital cities of empires, which is what I would describe New York as. There is no doubt that some people (particularly smart people) highly value the diversity and cosmopolitanism that cities of this form provide. On the other hand, people who value high social t…

I am getting the sense that you're saying that New York City is primarily a city of smart people who value cosmopolitanism and not of people who value high social trust and strong social identity. That might be the stereotype of certain parts of Manhattan (especially of people who - and I admit I'm one of them - have voluntarily moved to the city for work), but that's not the majority of New York City at all. Come an…

Well, the neighborhoods you are discussing, which do have higher social trust, do have a strong ethnic identity, so I think that this may reinforce my point rather than hurt it.

I must admit that I have a more pastoral and conflict-adverse personality, so the idea of New York as an ideal is difficult for me to comprehend. I'm OK with that: there are obviously many people to whom this idea is obvious as well. My long term conclusion is we should allow these types of folks to separate and establish different political units that satisfy these needs: some of these could be relatively ethnically homogeneous, some less so. I would expect, but am willing to admit this is speculation, that you would find higher trust and cross-class identity in the more homogeneous political units.

I appreciate you taking the time to thoughtfully reply to my comments.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#155

Post by dredmorbius »

ams6110 wrote: post #129
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, dude. If you are talking of using camnnabis for medical use, I'm gonna want a dosage guideline and strength/purity promises. I'm pretty sure for medical use, it will more closely resemble ibuprofen or cough medicine if it is without prescription. With prescription it'll be more like generics. It might still be a monopoly, since these drugs have to go through all the FDA testing. Heck, if you want fluori…

It's a freaking plant. Why should it be more regulated than parsley?

Because "it's a freaking plant" doesn't address the full scope of properties.

Opium and poison sumac are plants. Should it be legal to sell both for smoking, or mix them in with other goods entirely unregulated?

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#156

Post by trhway »

nkrisc wrote: post #145
CalChris wrote: post #92

Marijuana should be legal. That it is a schedule 1 narcotic and that we put people in prison for decades and even life is immoral. https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/life-sentence-ma...

Interesting how legal opioids are fueling a national 'crisis' while illegal marijuana, though widely used, is not.

Hard to find a person/family devastated by marijuana use. At least devastated beyond what alcohol does.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#157

Post by philipps »

krelian wrote: post #116
leakybit wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more people who are dealing with chronic pain who need opioid than people who are using them for "recreational" purposes.

I can't help but feel that these medications are being vastly over prescribed by doctors. Why is this not a problem in other countries? Either the number of people suffering from chronic pain in the U.S is way higher (percentage wise) than in other countries (why?) or the doctors are prescribing extremely dangerous medicine as if it were candy.

The NewYorker article mentioned above explains some of the reasons, ranging from misleading marketing to more nefarious tactics. The article is worth reading.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#158

Post by [deleted] »

neandrake wrote: post #148
Feniks wrote: post #107

I find it endlessly hilarious that nobody in the US is asking WHY Why are people taking drugs? The country needs to do some serious soul searching. Won't happen though.

I've been reading Dreamland by Sam Quinones, which goes into detail and background of the past ~50 years or so about how we got into this situation. A large part of the WHY you're referring to I'll summarize as 1. Pain being identified as a vital sign and hospitals/institutions new-found focus on tracking and treating pain 2. Deceptive pharmaceutical marketing that painkillers are a be-all solution to pain and also n…

[deleted]

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#159

Post by rconti »

Pxtl wrote: post #134
cpursley wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure Capitalism is the correct term for this (it's the most misused "'ism"). If there was a free market for drugs (legalization), I suspect we would not be in a crisis.

That's the scary question. Legal opioids would flood the street with cheap, safe (comparatively speaking), legal morphine. What's worse? Morphine flooding a our society as a recreational drug? Think how easily highschoolers can get beer and cigarettes, but with opioids... But our current approach has lead to the widespread adoption of the cheapest, most concentrated, and most dangerous opioid imaginable: Fentanyl. Th…

Seems like we've already got "how easily highschoolers can get beer and cigarettes, but with opiods". They're doing a lot of the overdosing.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#160

Post by cr1895 »

trhway wrote: post #156
nkrisc wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting how legal opioids are fueling a national 'crisis' while illegal marijuana, though widely used, is not.

Hard to find a person/family devastated by marijuana use. At least devastated beyond what alcohol does.

It’s not hard to find lives devastated by the illegality of it.
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