The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#51

Post by danmaz74 » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #3

quantumofmalice wrote: post #2

> The industry of addiction treatment is haphazardly regulated, poorly understood and expanding at a rapid clip, bringing in $35 billion a year. Why not focus on the root company and family actually getting rich off selling the damned opioids (Purdue Pharma and the Sacklers, respectively)? I don't understand how this company and family haven't been sued into the ground yet.

Few people actually have the resources to pursue legal remedies and given the demographics of those affected by opioid addiction, I'm completely unsurprised.

Isn't this a perfect situation to use class action?

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#52

Post by unabst » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

Capitalism is sinister like this.

It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception.

Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from.

Unfortunately one person suppressing their unethical behavior is inconsequential. If an opportunity exists, eventually someone will use it.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#53

Post by amasad » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

The first story of the series about how a short-selling investor was able to uncover a potential murder case against a rehab company and profit from it is an interesting anecdote on how the same market incentives that we tend to blame so much on can also be a force for good.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/27/business/drug...

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#54

Post by hesdeadjim » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

I have a lot of friends in the treatment business and some of the stories I’ve heard of unethical providers are absolutely shocking.

Ignoring the urine testing schemes, in the worse areas people will sometimes pay clients to relapse after they leave a program so that they can reenroll and they can bill insurance all over again.

Google AdWords for treatment became such a problem that Google stopped allowing them because unethical centers were basically killing people.

Don’t even get me started on the altnernative “treatments” out there. In a town near me there is a place that will give you amino acid injections and claim that’s all one needs to get clean.

It’s obscene that this happens and unfortunately as a consumer it can be hard to separate the good from the bad if you are desperate for help.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#55

Post by mjfl » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

It's not capitalism, it's people. People do this. Stop absolving them with college-freshman-level ideological appeals.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#56

Post by cpursley » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

I'm not so sure Capitalism is the correct term for this (it's the most misused "'ism").

If there was a free market for drugs (legalization), I suspect we would not be in a crisis.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#57

Post by StreamBright » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

Actually the opposite. Government regulations outlaw cheap non-dangerous alternatives (like cannabis) and create a monopoly by granting patents to a single entity.

https://qz.com/1125690/big-pharma-is-taking-advantage-of-pat...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/outdated-treatments-and-dr...

The solution is to make cannabis legal for everybody in every state for medical use and since it cannot be patented there will be many suppliers who compete with the quality and price just like it happens with almost everything that is not under very strict government regulation.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#58

Post by kurthr » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

malchow wrote: post #4

quantumofmalice wrote: post #2

> The industry of addiction treatment is haphazardly regulated, poorly understood and expanding at a rapid clip, bringing in $35 billion a year. Why not focus on the root company and family actually getting rich off selling the damned opioids (Purdue Pharma and the Sacklers, respectively)? I don't understand how this company and family haven't been sued into the ground yet.

The family are all Democrats. That isn't the sole reason, but if you compare the "shadowy financier" tone of many stories about right-of-center families to the stories about opioids, you'll see that the "shadowiness" component of the reporting suddenly disappears.

The only part of the above link that would speak to this says:

[Living in Texas] in a modern hilltop mansion on the outskirts of the city, in an area favored by tech entrepreneurs. According to tax disclosures from his personal foundation, he has continued giving money to Yale, but his largest donation in 2015 was a hundred-thousand-dollar gift to a neoconservative think tank, the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/30/the-family-tha...

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#59

Post by StreamBright » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

21 wrote: post #39

sidcool wrote: post #7

I cannot understand why the Government is not acting against the pharmas profiting from this crisis. And why people are not revolting. There is a clear nexus between pharmas and doctors. Something should be done.

Because in US money speaks: Between 2006 and 2015, Purdue and other painkiller producers, along with their associated nonprofits, spent nearly nine hundred million dollars on lobbying and political contributions—eight times what the gun lobby spent during that period. And the revolving door: He had also enlisted Rudolph Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, and his associate Bernard Kerik to preëmpt any government…

Not exactly. If money speaks than the cannabis would be generally accessible in every state because it brings in huge amount of tax to government and income for companies.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#60

Post by cptskippy » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

hesdeadjim wrote: post #54

I have a lot of friends in the treatment business and some of the stories I’ve heard of unethical providers are absolutely shocking. Ignoring the urine testing schemes, in the worse areas people will sometimes pay clients to relapse after they leave a program so that they can reenroll and they can bill insurance all over again. Google AdWords for treatment became such a problem that Google stopped allowing them becau…

I had a similar experience though the treatment providers were actually trying to work in the patient's best interest.

I had a family member who was in and out of treatment for a disorder and discharge was largely dictated by the insurance company against the recommendation of everyone else involved.

Without saying as much, the treatment providers strongly implied a quick relapse and return to the facility would ultimately be the best thing because it would reset the clock with insurance.