Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much • Hacker News Board

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#61

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:25 PM UTC

crispyambulance wrote: post #37

rainbowmverse wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (Separately: Don't get an undergraduate degree in business. What a worthless degree.) It's hard for people to learn things like this if they're afraid to talk to people who've gone down that road for fear that an honest expression of concern will be read as a critical lack of confidence. Just because we're yelled and beaten down for every expression of vulnerability growing up doesn't mean we have to perpetuate it…

The thing is you can never _really_ know, in advance, who is going to be empathetic about expressions of doubt and who is going to silently and permanently pass judgement upon it. Saying that stuff to peers has little risk especially if the peers know each other. But aetherson has a supervisor role here and he is at least being honest to us that such a remark will condition his future opinion of the blabber-mouth. Th…

Your boss is not your friend, but your boss can be your mentor. I've had to form a level of trust with my boss because I really needed his advice as a first time tech lead.

I knew the technology I was implementing pretty well but now knowing how to approach higher ups and people in other departments is just as important.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#62

Post by amigoingtodie » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

lolsal wrote: post #17

xutopia wrote: post #9

There is a backlash to this ancient mode of thinking. It's called Conscious Leadership and it's predicated on the idea that vulnerability brings better results and that you need a safe environment for the dynamic to flourish. Some of it sounds very new-agey but from what I've read and experienced it has really good fundamentals.

It seems like this parallels the need for encryption. I don't over-share in meatspace for the same reason that I don't deliberately make myself vulnerable in cyber-space.

I agree, but, I also wonder if some of this 'it is okay to share' is because of social media's influence on what is acceptable to disclose.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#63

Post by losteric » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:42 PM UTC

mr_spothawk wrote: post #36

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lack of confidence Hide your doubts, smile and act confident and you'll be OK most of the time... ..but when it fails it can lead to disasters, especially if entire teams are engaging in this behavior.

> when it fails it can lead to disasters do you have any examples of this?

Are you asking for examples of failure resulting from one or more people overstating their confidence in achieving expectations?

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#64

Post by losteric » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:48 PM UTC

misterbowfinger wrote: post #56

I really do think about this a lot, but I disagree with what the author proposes which is basically lying or deceiving others: > Authenticity is rare, but people performing authenticity is common, and being good at that performance can build a fortune. Not just authenticity, of course. Being able to pretend that you are furious is a trick that all great sales people use. And being able to create the illusion of a sin…

Yes, you're describing discretion and reiterating the author. They never suggested lying, merely being mindful of the circumstances when disclosing truth.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#65

Post by mulmen » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

I get a lot of value from my undergraduate business degree and resent your characterization of my education and career choices.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#66

Post by ataturk » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:52 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

I don't see the problem. It's normal for intelligent people to play these "what if?" games because playing out scenarios both in your head and by talking to others is how you improve. You don't do it by being an idiot, that's for sure. Also, she's not necessarily going to advance at her current company in her current role, so whatever say you think you have about her future is largely theoretic.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#67

Post by keyboardhitter » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:52 PM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #48

Traditionally, for a man among men, expressing confidence has always been safe. If a man expresses confidence in a situation where confidence is foolhardy, other men will interpret it as a performance of masculinity. I'm sure Rick understands this project is going to be a nightmare. I'm glad he's gung-ho about it. If you express fear, on the other hand, your fear will be scrutinized to determine whether it is well-fo…

Very thoughtful comment, I really appreciate your pragmatism and ability to articulate such a divided issue. I absolutely agree that vulnerability should be rewarded (or at least, not avoided as if it's a weakness). I've often thought to myself that in tech, teams could benefit from vulnerability and openness to help confront underlying issues that may otherwise be ignored by overt confidence/bravado. Of course, it would take being aware of these subtleties and a willingness to acknowledge internalized expectations. I don't expect much based on my current experiences, but I am still keeping this idea in the back of my mind if I ever find a role/team where I don't have to balance both sides as you explained.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#68

Post by bootsz » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 8:54 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

* > (Separately: Don't get an undergraduate degree in business. What a worthless degree.)

Depends on the major. Accounting is a pretty legitimate degree with high-ish earning potential. Finance can be semi-legit, but most Wall Street jobs will just as easily take people with math or engineering degrees, often preferring them, and those degrees are way more versatile. Most others will not increase your career options. I made this mistake sadly.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#69

Post by neltnerb » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

throwaway0255 wrote: post #44

rainbowmverse wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (Separately: Don't get an undergraduate degree in business. What a worthless degree.) It's hard for people to learn things like this if they're afraid to talk to people who've gone down that road for fear that an honest expression of concern will be read as a critical lack of confidence. Just because we're yelled and beaten down for every expression of vulnerability growing up doesn't mean we have to perpetuate it…

> Just because we're yelled and beaten down for every expression of vulnerability growing up doesn't mean we have to perpetuate it into adulthood. Stop the cycle. This is like shaking your fist at gravity. Everyone's in competition all the time whether they like it or not, that's the universe we live in. Given a choice, you're going to advance the person who's glad they got into computer science, all things being equ…

I admit I am slightly confused, I would take that comment as an indicator that I should give her more opportunities to sit in on how business decisions are made since she may be far more valuable as a computer-savvy business person. I suppose if she was very negative about the actual work of computer programming I'd be biased against trusting her with long-term projects since she might abandon them. So I suppose it could equally well be somewhat tactical disclosure to get out in the air that she'd like to try some more business-focused work.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#70

Post by mulmen » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

bootsz wrote: post #68

aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

* > (Separately: Don't get an undergraduate degree in business. What a worthless degree.) Depends on the major. Accounting is a pretty legitimate degree with high-ish earning potential. Finance can be semi-legit, but most Wall Street jobs will just as easily take people with math or engineering degrees, often preferring them, and those degrees are way more versatile. Most others will not increase your career options.…

This is a toxic generalization and is unfair to anyone who put in the work to earn and then take advantage of a business degree. Are you honestly arguing that the entire discipline of marketing is worthless? What about project management? Process improvement? Human resources? It's flat wrong to say a business degree is "worthless".

I have an undergraduate business degree and I have done very well with it. Your mistakes are your own, don't blame the program.