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Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

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Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#301

Post by jchonphoenix »

nickik wrote: post #247
jchonphoenix wrote: post #160

The most worrisome factor in this lawsuit is how this will impact java as a language and a platform. If Google loses this lawsuit, java as a language and platform could easily die. Many companies would refuse to use it, just to be on the safe side and avoid litigation from Oracle. Oracle probably doesn't realize the massive damage it has done to the java platform just by going forward with this suit. Due to the loomi…

Why should java as a platform die? Most people use the Sun JVM and you will still be able to use that others like IBM have contracts with Sun. So no problem there. So if the JVM goes closed source it still wont go away because the support of Sun/Oracle will stay the same. It would have a big impact but not as big as you discribe. I would still take the JVM because the the languages are better and I don't want to be b…

Companies would be afraid of the whims of Oracle. I honestly believe that most individuals would trust Microsoft over Oracle. Microsoft is no longer a huge evil empire. Their goal is to augment their bottom line, and in the case of the .NET framework, their goals and yours would align.

Additionally, the languages in the JVM are not better. Anyone who has used C# can tell you that Microsoft did an extremely good job designing that language. It can almost be stated that C# is hands down better than Java as a language (its dependency on Microsoft products aside).

Also, what do you mean by "languages" as a plural? The other JVM based language are free of Oracle's control. If they wanted, they could use IcedTea, so Java's really the only platform at stake here.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#303

Post by superjared »

j-g-faustus wrote: post #77
cscotta wrote: post #7

The biggest issue I see with Oracle's lawsuit is not with Android itself, but the future of Java as an open platform. The claims are pretty serious, and Oracle is going straight for the jugular. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, but I've got to hope that Google will come out of this in good shape for the sake of Java. It's unfortunate that Oracle is interpreting Google's implementation of Dalvik and a Ja…

This article from 2007 might be of interest: "How Google routed around Sun's IP-based licensing restrictions on Java ME": http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/110/ It's apparently not a complete surprise, this guy in 2007 predicted that ... in the future expect a shit-load of IP-related lawsuits on this.

Another interesting tidbit from the article you linked:

The trick is that Google doesn’t claim that Android is a Java platform, although it can run some programs written with the Java language and against some derived version of the Java class library. Sun could prevent this if they had a patent on the standard class library, but they don’t and, even if they did, I strongly doubt it would be enforceable since Android doesn’t claim to be compatible (and in fact, could very well claim that their subset/superset is an innovation on the existing patent and challenge Sun’s position).

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#304

Post by wmf »

superjared wrote: post #303
j-g-faustus wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article from 2007 might be of interest: "How Google routed around Sun's IP-based licensing restrictions on Java ME": http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/110/ It's apparently not a complete surprise, this guy in 2007 predicted that ... in the future expect a shit-load of IP-related lawsuits on this.

Another interesting tidbit from the article you linked: The trick is that Google doesn’t claim that Android is a Java platform, although it can run some programs written with the Java language and against some derived version of the Java class library. Sun could prevent this if they had a patent on the standard class library, but they don’t and, even if they did, I strongly doubt it would be enforceable since Android…

If by "interesting" you mean "totally misunderstands patent law". What Google claims is irrelevant; either they use Oracle's patented techniques or they don't.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#305

Post by wmf »

noonespecial wrote: post #145
jancona wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would BSD help? It doesn't include a patent license.

Skip the "patent and promise" dance and just release the damn thing BSD and forget about patents . (Implied, should have specified)

If you already have patents (as Sun did in this case) you can't just forget about them. Saying nothing about patents is equivalent to saying "some day we'll change our mind and start suing". If you want to make something really open you really need some kind of irrevocable license or promise not to sue.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#307

Post by mooneater »

wmf wrote: post #304
superjared wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another interesting tidbit from the article you linked: The trick is that Google doesn’t claim that Android is a Java platform, although it can run some programs written with the Java language and against some derived version of the Java class library. Sun could prevent this if they had a patent on the standard class library, but they don’t and, even if they did, I strongly doubt it would be enforceable since Android…

If by "interesting" you mean "totally misunderstands patent law". What Google claims is irrelevant; either they use Oracle's patented techniques or they don't.

If only patent suits were so cut-and-dry.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#308

Post by rjurney »

jws wrote: post #95
rjurney wrote: post #71

Oracle CEO Larry Ellison are good friends, best man at your wedding kind of friends. Ellison was once on Apple's board of directors after Jobs returned to Apple. Oracle suing Google over Java patent infringements in Android sure plays well for Apple... Apple vs (Google vs (Facebook && Oracle))

… and if you rearrange the letters of "spicy acorn" it even spells "conspiracy"!.

I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, just an alliance :)

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#309

Post by zacharypinter »

maweaver wrote: post #242
guelo wrote: post #119

My dream for wrestling my profession away from the lawyers and CEOs is the formation of a programmer's union. The union would mainly be concerned with issues like these patents. A strike would be called on any company that tried to use software patents. A strike would mean not only that the programmers of that company would stop working, but also all programmers nationwide would refuse to work on that company's produ…

I'd rather see us become licensed professionals, like CPAs, with a large professional organization (like the AICPA) to lobby for us on issues like software patents, etc.

I'd hate to be in a profession where one mistake means you can never work again (doctors, lawyers, etc).

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#310

Post by bravo_sierra »

seldo wrote: post #299
JoachimSchipper wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you're replying to pointed out that Oracle owns MySQL (acquired with Sun) and BerkeleyDB (acquired with SleepyCat).

I had forgotten they also owned BerkeleyDB (obviously I know that Oracle own Sun, is that why I'm getting downmodded?). But my point still stands: makers of replacement engines for MySQL could be in violation of MySQL-related patents, which Oracle could then sue over.

They could, but they haven't, and probably won't. Oracle had a big database-related portfolio long before they acquired Sun/MySQL, which had relatively few. They even bought Innobase, makers of the InnoDB engine a few years ago.

Other database vendors (Percona et al., not IBM) don't have assets for Oracle to take, don't directly threaten their core business, and going after them would get Oracle in trouble with regulators.

Better to land a tuna than chase sardines around.

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