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The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

nytimes.com

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Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#91

Post by ataturk »

jacob019 wrote: post #83
vanderZwan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations... I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0]. Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad a…

I've always observed that HN leans pro-regulation.

The problem isn't the regulation per se, it's the militarized police kicking in doors and murdering people, the violent gangs that murder people, the cartels, and all the social chaos around all the above--ruined families, kids without functioning parents, car crashes, lost jobs, all of it.

I can't just say "legalize it all" but at this point what makes anyone think total legalization would actually be worse?

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#93

Post by dredmorbius »

StreamBright wrote: post #57
unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

Actually the opposite. Government regulations outlaw cheap non-dangerous alternatives (like cannabis) and create a monopoly by granting patents to a single entity. https://qz.com/1125690/big-pharma-is-taking-advantage-of-pat... http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/outdated-treatments-and-dr... The solution is to make cannabis legal for everybody in every state for medical use and since it cannot be patented there will b…

We had a system with no regulations over drugs.

It went poorly.

https://archive.org/details/jungle00sinc

The correct response to bad regulation isn't no regulation but GOOD REGULATION.

There have been similar circumstances as concern snake oil, opium, cocaine, radium, asbestos, lead, safety belts, air bags, ABS, screw and nut sizes, fire exits (and suppression equipment, and risk mitigation, and alarms -- look up the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory some time), and Jim Crow, and poll taxes, and "separate but equal", and CFCs, and C02, and ....

But I think I've made my point.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#94

Post by junkscience2017 »

vanderZwan wrote: post #61
StreamBright wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the opposite. Government regulations outlaw cheap non-dangerous alternatives (like cannabis) and create a monopoly by granting patents to a single entity. https://qz.com/1125690/big-pharma-is-taking-advantage-of-pat... http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/outdated-treatments-and-dr... The solution is to make cannabis legal for everybody in every state for medical use and since it cannot be patented there will b…

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations... I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0]. Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad a…

you may be recalling a Hacker News from another era...at this point it is mostly aging software developers bemoaning change and harumphing most everything.

there might be a forum for legitimate hackers who are genuinely stymied by government regulation, but HN isn't it, at least not anymore

YC itself isn't much of a change agent anymore either, it has devolved into a private club for people who won in Silicon Valley

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#95

Post by burkaman »

malchow wrote: post #4
quantumofmalice wrote: post #2

> The industry of addiction treatment is haphazardly regulated, poorly understood and expanding at a rapid clip, bringing in $35 billion a year. Why not focus on the root company and family actually getting rich off selling the damned opioids (Purdue Pharma and the Sacklers, respectively)? I don't understand how this company and family haven't been sued into the ground yet.

The family are all Democrats. That isn't the sole reason, but if you compare the "shadowy financier" tone of many stories about right-of-center families to the stories about opioids, you'll see that the "shadowiness" component of the reporting suddenly disappears.

> you'll see that the "shadowiness" component of the reporting suddenly disappears.

https://www.google.com/search?q=family+behind+opioid+epidemi...

"The Family That Built an Empire of Pain"

"Secretive Family"

"Secretive Sackler Family"

"The Family That's Killing Millions"

"American Cartel"

etc.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#96

Post by collyw »

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

As a Europeaan, it would seem that your capitalist funded health care model is at the heart of the problem.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#97

Post by rwmj »

Fifer82 wrote: post #81
rwmj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK it's given to some women during childbirth (although it's coyly known as "diamorphine"). https://www.babycentre.co.uk/a1026346/diamorphine

I really didn't know that is what it was. "Heroin" because it is dirty? "Diamorphine" because it is clean?

Because it is the "British Approved Name" of the substance apparently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Names

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#98

Post by dredmorbius »

cpursley wrote: post #56
unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

I'm not so sure Capitalism is the correct term for this (it's the most misused "'ism"). If there was a free market for drugs (legalization), I suspect we would not be in a crisis.

"Capitalism" is a label that's come to mean numerous different things to numerous different entities.

But some mix of laissez-fair, small-government, complete reliance on decisionmaking at the individual level (except where corporations can impose their preferences over individuals, communities, regions, states, nations, or globally), very strong defences of some kinds of property rights, and an exceptionally high level of un-accounted externalties, seems to capture much the flavour.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#99

Post by rayiner »

emodendroket wrote: post #87
vanderZwan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations... I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0]. Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad a…

America has plenty of successful examples of government programs; the problem is ideological blinders rather than a uniquely ineffectual government.

I think there is a lot of reason to believe that we have a uniquely ineffectual government. Excluding defense expenditures, and counting all levels of government, Canada spends less public money per capita, while having cheaper healthcare, education, better transit, etc. For example, we spend more per capita on education than any OECD country except Switzerland, and get worse results. Our federal system (where states aren’t mere administrative bodies taking direction from the central government) makes things particularly difficult. Which means the aspects of government closest to the people (roads, schools, housing, transit) are often the worst managed.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#100

Post by freedomben »

leakybit wrote: post #47
sidcool wrote: post #7

I cannot understand why the Government is not acting against the pharmas profiting from this crisis. And why people are not revolting. There is a clear nexus between pharmas and doctors. Something should be done.

There are more people who are dealing with chronic pain who need opioid than people who are using them for "recreational" purposes.

I agree. This is a human rights issue happening right under our eyes, but we're so wrapped up in opiophobia and supposed benevolent paternalism to see it.

The people who use them for dealing with chronic pain have been devastated by this war against them and their medicine. Many are committing suicide rather than face the pain without their medicine, and yes the medicine is being taken away, with "stopping the opioid epidemic" given as justification. It is truly sick what we're doing out of ignorance as a society. I've seen very few profiles of people in the media (beyond the Pain News Network), so most non-pain patients have no idea about this world and what they are doing to their neighbors.

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