The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#61

Post by vanderZwan » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #57

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

Actually the opposite. Government regulations outlaw cheap non-dangerous alternatives (like cannabis) and create a monopoly by granting patents to a single entity. https://qz.com/1125690/big-pharma-is-taking-advantage-of-pat... http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/outdated-treatments-and-dr... The solution is to make cannabis legal for everybody in every state for medical use and since it cannot be patented there will b…

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations...

I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0].

Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad and see how things work over there. Government regulations are a tool that can be used for good and bad.

[0] Also, in the US these laws are historically very much set up to target poor and black people (and I wish I had a clear picture of how things are in my own country regarding that, actually; I'm sure there's a few laws sneakily screwing over migrant workers or something), but I digress.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#62

Post by StreamBright » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

vanderZwan wrote: post #61

StreamBright wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the opposite. Government regulations outlaw cheap non-dangerous alternatives (like cannabis) and create a monopoly by granting patents to a single entity. https://qz.com/1125690/big-pharma-is-taking-advantage-of-pat... http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/outdated-treatments-and-dr... The solution is to make cannabis legal for everybody in every state for medical use and since it cannot be patented there will b…

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations... I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0]. Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad a…

Not really typical, we are very diverse people with very different opinions. What is your argument? Who said government regulations cannot be good and bad? Anything about the subject?

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#63

Post by quantumofmalice » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

> Unfortunately one person suppressing their unethical behavior is inconsequential. If an opportunity exists, eventually someone will use it.

This isn't solely a feature of capitalism. Any system is going to devolve into the strong eating the weak unless the strong identify with and have solidarity with the weak.

I have recently become much more willing to listen to ethno-nationalists of all ethnoses based on this realization: stripped of any imperialistic impulse it may be the best way to generate cross class identity in a given political unit. I tend to think size/scale matters as well, perhaps more so, so that the strong are forced into closer quarters with the weak and so that social interactions are iterated, leading to a better stable state.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#64

Post by dopamean » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

vanderZwan wrote: post #61

StreamBright wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the opposite. Government regulations outlaw cheap non-dangerous alternatives (like cannabis) and create a monopoly by granting patents to a single entity. https://qz.com/1125690/big-pharma-is-taking-advantage-of-pat... http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/outdated-treatments-and-dr... The solution is to make cannabis legal for everybody in every state for medical use and since it cannot be patented there will b…

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations... I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0]. Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad a…

And are hardly solely responsible for the opioid crisis as StreamBright suggests. Of course government could have done something to avoid this, however, they'd likely be criticized for putting forth regulations that stifle innovation and hurt businesses. StreamBright's definitely not wrong though that the prohibition of weed has exacerbated the problem.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#65

Post by nol13 » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

MechEStudent wrote: post #10

sidcool wrote: post #7

I cannot understand why the Government is not acting against the pharmas profiting from this crisis. And why people are not revolting. There is a clear nexus between pharmas and doctors. Something should be done.

The 0.1% unilaterally owns the government. Better than half of all laws are made for them. Where do you think the 0.1% stands on the opioid crisis? It doesn't touch them. It is a poverty-problem, not theirs.

Citation? Addiction doesn't care about the size of your bitcoin wallet.

But yes all things considered better to be a rich addict than a poor one.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#66

Post by dahdum » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #56

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

I'm not so sure Capitalism is the correct term for this (it's the most misused "'ism"). If there was a free market for drugs (legalization), I suspect we would not be in a crisis.

"If there was a free market for drugs (legalization), I suspect we would not be in a crisis."

If not in direct crisis we'd always be on the knife's edge of one.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#67

Post by CalChris » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #56

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

I'm not so sure Capitalism is the correct term for this (it's the most misused "'ism"). If there was a free market for drugs (legalization), I suspect we would not be in a crisis.

Yes. I think a better term here might be corporate personhood, where corporations have some of the rights that people have while shielding their owners from liability.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#68

Post by vanderZwan » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #62

vanderZwan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually the opposite. Government regulations... I'm from the Netherlands so you won't hear me disagree with the argument that criminalizing cannabis and drugs is not the solution[0]. Having said that, the typical undertone on HN of "regulation is bad by definition" really irks me. I can imagine that if the only perspective one has is a dysfunctional government, one might think that, but please take a look abroad a…

Not really typical, we are very diverse people with very different opinions. What is your argument? Who said government regulations cannot be good and bad? Anything about the subject?

You were responding to someone arguing that this is a byproduct of giving capitalism free, uninhibited reign (paraphrasing). You are arguing that the cause is government regulation, and that this is the opposite.

Apologies for misinterpreting if this was not your intent, but based on what I just wrote, I don't think it's a stretch to interpret that message as implying that regulation is bad in general.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#69

Post by dopamean » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #59

21 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in US money speaks: Between 2006 and 2015, Purdue and other painkiller producers, along with their associated nonprofits, spent nearly nine hundred million dollars on lobbying and political contributions—eight times what the gun lobby spent during that period. And the revolving door: He had also enlisted Rudolph Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, and his associate Bernard Kerik to preëmpt any government…

Not exactly. If money speaks than the cannabis would be generally accessible in every state because it brings in huge amount of tax to government and income for companies.

Money did speak... 90 years ago when interested (and wealthy) parties saw to it that weed be made illegal. It has been banned ever since and so there hasn't been almost any opportunity for the money in the marijuana business to do any speaking. That is the real reason that pharma businesses lobby against legalization of it. Not just because it would hurt their business directly (lost sales) but because weed businesses would be able to legally lobby against pharama's interests.

Re: The lucrative business of America’s opioid crisis

#70

Post by debacle » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:32 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #56

unabst wrote: post #52

Capitalism is sinister like this. It doesn't intentionally do it, because capitalism isn't a person, but when everything is monetized by our creative entrepreneurs, it grows; our problems being no exception. Once someone makes money, they want more of it. Capitalism demands more of it. And we stretch every line of the law, even cross it, just to get more from where that came from. Unfortunately one person suppressing…

I'm not so sure Capitalism is the correct term for this (it's the most misused "'ism"). If there was a free market for drugs (legalization), I suspect we would not be in a crisis.

> it's the most misused "'ism"

Right up there with socialism, ironically. There needs to be a trendier name for regulatory capture.