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India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

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Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#341

Post by qxf2 »

This article has a random sprinkling of numbers that really do not give you the big picture. Here is some context about the outsourcing industry in India. Good stats to know (assuming the media is right):

1. the entire IT outsourcing industry is ~$150 billion large and employs ~3.9 million people.

2. the top 7 largest IT companies employ ~1.3 million people

3. I cannot calculate the exact revenue of the top 7 companies because they are part of larger groups (e.g.: TCS, Wipro). But the Top IT companies headcount and revenue

a) Infosys: ~200,000 employees ($10 billion revenue)

b) Wipro: ~180,000 employees ($7.7 billion)

c) TCS: ~390,000 employees ($17.5 billion)

d) Capgemini: ~200,000 employees (I don't know)

e) CTS: ~260,000 employees ($13.5 billion)

f) Tech Mahindra: ~120,000 lakh employees ($4 billion)

Stories like these come around routinely in the April-June timeframe (every year!) around appraisal time. This '56000' number is simply a random quote 5% of the entire workforce of the top 7 companies. I have seen different media outlets report the numbers as 28,000 this year to 200,000 in 3 years. Honestly, they don't know nor do I.

FWIW, I run an outsourcing testing services firm in India. I am too small to feel market trends. However, I have been reading and talking and interviewing several candidates across India. I can tell you that the tension has been palpable for the last 8 months or so. Many senior folks are feeling a quiet sense of desperation. I don't know if the media sentiment started the tension or if the ground reality is indeed going to force layoffs of senior employees.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#342

Post by hi41 »

The article refers to digitisation and automation as one of the reasons for the layoffs.

Can someone please explain what processes those two terms involve. Does automation mean writing Unix shell scripts and setting it up under Cron. But that has been done since very long time. I see don't get what digitisation and automation mean.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#343

Post by [deleted] »

glogla wrote: post #314
saguro wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/4k994j/if_... This is how good talent views any kind of tests. I can't blame them. There is no other professional industry in the world, where candidates with 6+ years of professional success are asked to sit a god damned test every time they apply for a job. Insulting doesn't even begin to describe the problem with this concept. Don't get me wrong, I understand where…

> There is no other professional industry in the world, where candidates with 6+ years of professional success are asked to sit a god damned test every time they apply for a job. But is it because it is hard to fake knowledge in other industries or is it because it is easy to find out programmer is faking? If there's so many programmers who can't do fizbuz, are there as many managers, doctors, lawyers, etc who can't…

[deleted]

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#344

Post by saguro »

bgribble wrote: post #334
saguro wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/4k994j/if_... This is how good talent views any kind of tests. I can't blame them. There is no other professional industry in the world, where candidates with 6+ years of professional success are asked to sit a god damned test every time they apply for a job. Insulting doesn't even begin to describe the problem with this concept. Don't get me wrong, I understand where…

I’ve worked as a software developer for 20+ years and have hired others many times. People lie on their resumes to an extent that is difficult to believe until you see it. Sometimes they can talk intelligently about coding in a way that can get them through a “talk about your history” interview (a good interviewer can usually pierce the lies, but a mediocre or inexperienced interviewer might come out thinking they ca…

I agree with everything you said except one bit.

> In my experience, someone who refuses or takes offense at a well-framed coding exercise is probably not going to be someone you want on your team.

In my experience those who refuse are the top of the top. We adapted our interview and intake process to accommodate these people (usually with a more stringent and goal oriented probation period), and it was the best thing we did in terms of resourcing. The people we took on through this stream ended up being by far the best performing bang for buck employees. They are opinionated and snobby, but that's a good thing, because they actually care about their respective fields enough to have strong opinions. They don't waste time with tests and coding challenges.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#345

Post by Wohlf »

Shangrila304 wrote: post #231

As someone who recently moved from USA To India this is the best thing that is happening to India. Coupled with racist immigration laws in USA this is helping smaller companies like mine to attract far superior talent. I was engineer number 1 in a Machine Learning division of an American company. I negotiated with my employer that I will move the whole division to India, hire in India at American salaries and deliver…

Even with Trump's immigration changes, our immigration standards are equally if not more liberal than India and much better than Chinese immigration. Citizens can't even move around China without government approval. Over 13% of the US population is foreign born, not including the over 11 million illegal aliens we have.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#346

Post by eksemplar »

erikb wrote: post #260
eksemplar wrote: post #2

It'll probably get worse for a lot of people. I work in the public sector, in a municipality. Our IT department has been relatively big on the server side, utilizing consultants ever so often to ensure best practices. To be honest I'm not an operations guy, and never have been, but I do work in management and my good friend who heads the IT department is struggling to find new roles for the operations people as we're…

Wow, I'm very interested to read more from you. A lot of what you say seems to be the same in many companies I know. Do you write a blog or have considered it?

I don’t and I’m not sure it would be wise to do when it wasn’t anonymous.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#347

Post by shagie »

saguro wrote: post #344
bgribble wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve worked as a software developer for 20+ years and have hired others many times. People lie on their resumes to an extent that is difficult to believe until you see it. Sometimes they can talk intelligently about coding in a way that can get them through a “talk about your history” interview (a good interviewer can usually pierce the lies, but a mediocre or inexperienced interviewer might come out thinking they ca…

I agree with everything you said except one bit. > In my experience, someone who refuses or takes offense at a well-framed coding exercise is probably not going to be someone you want on your team. In my experience those who refuse are the top of the top. We adapted our interview and intake process to accommodate these people (usually with a more stringent and goal oriented probation period), and it was the best thin…

That really depends then on what one is hiring for. An entry level position? Mid level? Senior? or Rock Star?

Those who are opinionated and snobby, even if they are the best preforming, may not be the best fit in many environments. A not insignificant portion of a senior developer's time can be spent mentoring people - and the snobby person may not be the best choice for that.

If the goal is to hire a team of one - great. If the goal is to hire into a team of half a dozen in what would be termed an enterprise development - the refusal to take a programming test may and work with the process rather than rebel against it may act as a strong indication that the person isn't going to be a good fit.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#348

Post by [deleted] »

kamaal wrote: post #153
murukesh_s wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is said is partially true. The curriculum wont get updated soon enough to catch up with industry trends. However Basic and Logo or Excel is not true. I graduated in 2004 and Java was the most prominent language we used, followed by C++ and then C. All of these are very relevant even today. However it was upto the students to explore more outside of what is taught in the curriculum. Even if you are not willing to…

>>The curriculum wont get updated soon enough to catch up with industry trends. No instituition. Not even in the US or any part of the world, will rewrite their syllabus and text books every time something the equivalent of React or Angular JS comes along. You generally teach the base skills from which much can be learned and grown. Also I don't understand this thing about asking colleges to train people in the lates…

[deleted]

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#349

Post by walshemj »

j45 wrote: post #333
saguro wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/4k994j/if_... This is how good talent views any kind of tests. I can't blame them. There is no other professional industry in the world, where candidates with 6+ years of professional success are asked to sit a god damned test every time they apply for a job. Insulting doesn't even begin to describe the problem with this concept. Don't get me wrong, I understand where…

If insulted doesn't begin to explain it, entitled might. I think the tests are annoying too. Still is ultimately called work for a reason, we show up to get things done that are challenging, sometimes unpleasant and often necessary. As a developer who hires other developers, I don't place the value in testing on what a developer can code, but how quickly they can learn and how well they can solve problems and communi…

Do you mean the employer is entitled or the employee? I have seen low skilled employers (supermarkets) complaining about university grads. When someone should point out that they are a "jumped up grocer" and they don't get to employ firsts from Oxbridge

And turn it the other way around what if a potential employee insisted on employers doing a test.

Imaginin interviewing at uber and asking

"So MR Manger" what's the difference between a worker and an employee :-)

Or asking a series of q on the companies anti discrimination bullying discipline or grievance procedures.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#350

Post by aws_ls »

nonamechicken wrote: post #340
aws_ls wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your narrative has some flaws. Startup events have been happening in India since past 10 years or so. Ever since Google won the war with Microsoft. Flipkart was founded in 2007. Ola soon after. This H1B visa issue is more of past 2-3 year issue. Admittedly it will have some impact. But definitely not the narrative you paint.

I know one example: http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/02/news/india/snapdeal-india-ku... He was denied h1b visa in 2007, came back to India, started a company that created jobs in India.

Thanks for that link, I didn't know that. But in any case, my point is not that H1B can't be an issue for any case. But that Startups scene in India got a boost around 2005-2007, when many companies started, and it was nothing to do with the H1B visa issue. Some failed as well. Guruji the Indian search engine.
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